Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH • Hacker News Board

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#161

Post by MAGZine » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 4:29 PM UTC

blakesterz wrote: post #6

here's the orginal: https://blog.dropbox.com/topics/company/dropbox-goes-virtual... This was interesting: "Next, we’re embracing what we call “non-linear workdays.” We’re setting core collaboration hours with overlap between time zones, and encouraging employees to design their own schedules beyond that." I've been WFH for about 8 years and have found this just happens naturally. At least for us it did. My team is in…

Depends how you build your teams.

I'm working with people across the globe, no doubt a circumstance of a thousand small decisions. Scheduling some meetings is 100% impossible, and often times it involves taking meetings early (7-8AM) or late (7-9PM) in order to make things work.

Even if you carve out time during the day to compensate for those, it's not what I would describe as "practical."

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#162

Post by rgbrenner » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 4:34 PM UTC

harikb wrote: post #79

swalsh wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really is the way to do it in my opinion. Collaboration is one of the hardest parts to do remote (though I think VR could make this better)

I will take 4K video and audio that doesn't drop off and a world where there is universal fiber/good connectivity. Then after that, we can talk about VR.

Have you seen what Nvidia is doing with Maxine? The compression is so good we might not need fiber to do 4k or VR conferencing.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#163

Post by this_na_hipster » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 4:34 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #121

I guess it's not surprising but I am super disappointed by some of the comments here that show a total lack of empathy for people who aren't like you. I mean, you love working from home? Congrats, more power to you. But the number of comments stating that "only people who are good at office politics like going to the office", "only incompetent managers need to see you in person", "your co-workers aren't your friends"…

I completely agree. Additionally, as someone in the thread pointed out, this decision really doesn't make sense by Dropbox. You have a series of problems that I can't see a solution for.

1) If we have Dropbox Studios, who dictates the frequency of those visits? If a manager dictates, there will be resentment of some sorts. If its a democratic vote, what about the people that can't make that date?

2) Assuming the dates have been finalized, the people that cannot make that date are at a disadvantage. They might not be in driving distance to a hub or for other reasons. That would mean information again has to be propagated back virtually for all members.

3) If a date is set and all the necessary people have come together, is it essentially a company day off? If the goal is to meet and talk to people without doing solo-work, I would assume its filled with meetings or events. If this is true, this doesn't make sense to do it too frequently. If done infrequently, it defeats the purposes of these studios.

All of the thoughts so far don't even go through the cliques / groups that would form that can be gatekeepers of information for true remote workers that can't meetup.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#164

Post by hintymad » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 4:34 PM UTC

In the early days of Dropbox, engineers went to really loud bars late in the night, and them settled their designs in the bar with god-knows how much drink. This culture made it really hard for engineers with a family, or for those like me who simply hate, I mean really hate, noisy place or excessive drinking.

Well, I guess this WFH policy would help leveling the playground. Bar culture sucks.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#165

Post by baron_harkonnen » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 4:35 PM UTC

puranjay wrote: post #31

As someone who has worked from home for a decade, I predict a mental health apocalypse in the near future. Working from home permanently requires support infrastructure not everyone has access to. It also requires a different approach to work altogether which, again, not everyone is capable of adopting. If you have family, work from home is great. But if you're single, staying cooped up alone at home can be a disaste…

What's also becoming very apparent is how many people use work as a means to escape an unhappy home life.

Things like an unhappy marriage can be dealt with by being at the office a lot, or working at home in a big enough home that you can remain isolated. The current situation forces a lot of these issues to come to a boil.

Even if you're just unhappy with who you are and what 'home' means for you, being forced to deal with it can be rough. Work is to many workaholics the same way a bar is to alcoholics. It's a place where a coping mechanism becomes not just a way to deal, but a sign of success.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#166

Post by boulos » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

holtalanm wrote: post #100

boulos wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, the commissioned study opens with a productivity argument being much more than any of those perks: > Loss of focus due to distractions translates to an estimated annual salary cost of US$34,448 per person in lost productivity, or US$391bn for US companies in the sectors analysed, equivalent to 28% of baseline salary payments

that argument is idiotic. from my personal experience, at least, I had FAR MORE interruptions when I was working in the office than I have when working from home.

They’re talking about exactly that: disruptions in offices have a huge drag, so WFH can allow companies to recoup productivity.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#167

Post by yf7730 » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

bob33212 wrote: post #88

dhouston wrote: post #33

To be clear (if you only read the headline :)), not entirely remote. Solo work at home, collaborative work in "studios", basically reimagining the offices into collaborative/convening spaces that you go into from ~once/week to once a quarter depending on team/role. Remote-only cuts out the in-person experience entirely, which is problematic for building teams and culture; and ad hoc "WFH whenever you feel like it" ge…

I have done this for years. I have seen that some people don't like it for the following reasons. 1. They prefer a predictable schedule. 2. They don't like being at home ( family or workspace issues) 3. They are good at or enjoy office politics. 4. They are incompetent managers and they don't know how to manage engineers other than looking over shoulders and taking attendence.

> 2. They don't like being at home (family or workspace issues)

Wanting to work somewhere other than your home does not mean you don't like being at home, nor that you have family or workspace issues. I would assume that some of us have a newfound appreciation for the energy and architecture of the modern cities and offices. I love my home but it's just not the same kind of space.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#168

Post by baron_harkonnen » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 4:40 PM UTC

tidepod12 wrote: post #67

thrownaway954 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not trying to sound like a dick... everyone has to get out of the house and making actual friends in life. co-workers aren't friends, bosses aren't friends, clients aren't friends, work relationships aren't friends. we all need human interaction... join a club, a gym, yoga, bike club, whatever, just interact with people that doesn't involve talking about work. and sitting home and playing video games while good, isn'…

>co-workers aren't friends, bosses aren't friends, clients aren't friends, work relationships aren't friends. It really saddens me whenever I see this (apparently common) sentiment on HN. Through every job I've had, I've met some of my very best life-long friends. My wedding party is over half people that I met at work. A couple of my former bosses are people I see every couple of months (pre-covid) and are invited t…

It makes me even sadder when people's social circles and even their entire social network align strictly with work.

I've met plenty of good friends at work, but I'm very happy my social network includes mostly people doing different things with their life. It means there is much more breadth of perspective, and you realize very easily that work isn't everything.

It sounds like you also might not have had much experience in the current "everyone is friends!" startup office culture. There's a pretty strong pressure to socialize all of the time, during lunch and after hours, with everyone. The people get laid off and they are erased from that social circle, typically people won't even communicate with them anymore. It's repulsive.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#169

Post by jojo2333 » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 4:40 PM UTC

geerlingguy wrote: post #7

WFH saves money for the company, I just hope that some of the expensive (to the company) perks like prime real estate, free meals, exercise programs, etc. can be translated into at least a minimal budget per employee of: Internet connection reimbursement, annual budget for workspace improvements (ideally with a large initial budget, like $1000 or more for desk, monitor, chair, etc.), and possibly some other perks. Bu…

Employee salaries are by FAR the largest expense for these companies.

Office rent is nothing in comparison.

Companies will make decisions based on employee productivity, which IMO, means having people in an office.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#170

Post by kris-s » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 4:41 PM UTC

jarjoura wrote: post #160

dimator wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think no one is thinking past "but I'm more productive!", that's including employers and employees. Productivity is not the be-all end-all of a career! Human interaction (of any kind) is important, "wasting" time going to lunch with colleagues is important, serendipitous encounters at the coffee machine are important. I know for certain if my employer decides to go permanent remote, I'll be looking for another empl…

The first 2 months of lockdown, I was crazy productive, working till midnight every night. Then little by little I'm slowly finding it harder and harder to concentrate. My productivity has fallen enough that my manager has called it out. So, at this point the commute and my eating habits have been the only thing that has significantly improved from this WFH lifestyle.

Sounds like you are in dire need of a break!