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The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

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Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#391

Post by vlan0 »

gumby wrote: post #382
vlan0 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may have overlooked the other side of those cables in your examples. While one side of the cable was FireWire or USB, the interface on the device was propriety. And that was true for over a decade worth of iPods, iPhones, and iPads.

I still have an original iPad and it had a big FireWire connector on it. It was FW on both ends. They rapidly switched to USB (w/30 pin at other end) in order to open up the PC market to the* iPod. * I refuse to follow Apples pretentious (proprietary?) refusal to use the article “the” with the iPod and the iPhone.

By big FireWire, do you mean Apple's 30-pin connector? I don't remember any iPads that came with a 4/6-pin interface.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#392

Post by firebird84 »

kalleboo wrote: post #388
sagarm wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple definitely did not lead on USB-C. Premium Android and Windows laptops standardized on USB-C long before.

Have windows laptops even standardized on USB-C now ? I still see a lot of Windows laptops that come with barrel plug charging and all the legacy ports, and then have a sole USB-C port that you can also use for charging if you buy a separate charger

The problem is if they have the space for a USB-A plug, realize that tons of NEW consumer devices still use that! Apple can convince its customer base to buy dongles, but will all Windows PC users be happy with that?

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#393

Post by firebird84 »

samatman wrote: post #316
acomjean wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda don't have a problem with the omissions, but the "marketing spin" seems a little over the top. How standard are these usb-c bricks and are people going to be worried about cooking their phones? (Apple's chargers are of pretty high quality, but it seems weird to plug a phone into a usb c device that can charge a notebook). Also I feel that the headphone ommission to save the environment would be more believabl…

Here's how I see it: the phone industry is in a bad Nash equilibrium. Chargers should be sold separately, they tend to last longer than a phone, cheap ones are dangerous, and people buy phones, the chargers just come with because everyone sells phones with chargers. Apple is big enough to shift out of that equilibrium, by pulling the good-ol' reality distortion field and encouraging everyone else to stop bundling cha…

The unfortunate part of this is that in a world where manufacturers compete independently on chargers, I think it will be a race to the bottom. Even apple users may accept the drastically lower cost of a $10 charger vs. Apple's. I expect to see more electrical fires in the future as a consequence. The build quality of some of the chargers that get sold online is downright dangerous.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#394

Post by stetrain »

manicdee wrote: post #390
dkonofalski wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But wouldn't everyone just take one then? And wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of minimizing the e-waste?

If it's a separate box that then the buyer has the option to say "no". Why would everyone just take one when they have perfectly functioning charging cradles, docks, clocks, and travel accessories? I have a 5-port charger on my desk which charges all my devices and organises them neatly. When we go travelling we have a USB charging bar which plugs into mains and provides half a dozen 2.4A USB ports. We don't need ven…

You'd probably want to charge something like $5 for it still. The power of free vs not free can be surprising.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#395

Post by Siira »

jacurtis wrote: post #122

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30. I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for remov…

Considering my family actually buys extra chargers, cables, and earpods, I also don't buy their env argument at all. Perhaps if you buy phones each year that'd be true, but then, you are having a much bigger impact by buying the extra phones and the accessories are marginal. Anyways, they could just say that they'd give one away for free to anyone who wanted it with their phone purchase.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#396

Post by gumby »

vlan0 wrote: post #391
gumby wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still have an original iPad and it had a big FireWire connector on it. It was FW on both ends. They rapidly switched to USB (w/30 pin at other end) in order to open up the PC market to the* iPod. * I refuse to follow Apples pretentious (proprietary?) refusal to use the article “the” with the iPod and the iPhone.

By big FireWire, do you mean Apple's 30-pin connector? I don't remember any iPads that came with a 4/6-pin interface.

Sorry I meant iPod, but I guess that word is uncommon enough that autocorrect changed it to iPad. And it's too late for me to edit.

It's surprisingly hard to find photos of the old connector; here's one: https://regmedia.co.uk/2011/09/27/ipod_1.jpg

(I do still own an original iPad too, and use it)

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#397

Post by soperj »

gumby wrote: post #382
vlan0 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may have overlooked the other side of those cables in your examples. While one side of the cable was FireWire or USB, the interface on the device was propriety. And that was true for over a decade worth of iPods, iPhones, and iPads.

I still have an original iPad and it had a big FireWire connector on it. It was FW on both ends. They rapidly switched to USB (w/30 pin at other end) in order to open up the PC market to the* iPod. * I refuse to follow Apples pretentious (proprietary?) refusal to use the article “the” with the iPod and the iPhone.

You do realize that firewire was an apple developed standard right? Very few computers had a firewire port aside from apple computers.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#398

Post by dkonofalski »

babesh wrote: post #370
dkonofalski wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the whole point. You'll buy one at that point because you need it. Giving people the brick whether they need it or not is what makes it wasteful and costly for all involved.

The point is that you will most likely immediately need it. Example, I charge my phone bedside. Now I need to either buy a brick or if I do what Apple wants me to do which is to buy the MagSafe charger. This incentivizes people to buy yet another Apple accessory. That and margins are the real purpose. One more foot into the Apple ecosystem.

>you will most likely immediately need it

What is that based on? The vast majority of iPhone buyers are existing iPhone users and will not need the brick. I have 4 bricks and cables in a drawer right now and I don't need them at all because I have a Qi wireless charger on my nightstand.

Most people will not need the brick.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#399

Post by stouset »

kalleboo wrote: post #389
stouset wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every USB-C device I’ve ever owned—including my MacBook Pro—has suffered from cables failing to “click” into place and being held in noticeably more loosely than when they were brad new. This has happened from within a few weeks to a few months. And it’s not the simply the cables wearing out: new cables with old devices produces the same behavior. And when I remove my USB-C YubiKey, the port it uses produces the sati…

I've had lots of trouble with lightning, mostly stemming from the power pin on cables corroding, which then causes arcing in any new device you use it in causing the problem to propagate I've had my iPhone 11 Pro Max inside a Apple smart charging case since day 1, and for the past few months, the connection is really flakey, either one of the plugs is going bad. And its never left the case, the port looks very clean…

That's a really interesting counter-anecdote. Now that I think about it, my girlfriend has also had two Lightning cables die due to arcing (discovered black markings on the copper contacts) although I'm not sure it if it propagated the way you were saying.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#400

Post by dkonofalski »

manicdee wrote: post #390
dkonofalski wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But wouldn't everyone just take one then? And wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of minimizing the e-waste?

If it's a separate box that then the buyer has the option to say "no". Why would everyone just take one when they have perfectly functioning charging cradles, docks, clocks, and travel accessories? I have a 5-port charger on my desk which charges all my devices and organises them neatly. When we go travelling we have a USB charging bar which plugs into mains and provides half a dozen 2.4A USB ports. We don't need ven…

Studies show that people will almost always take something offered free with a purchase, even if they don't need it. While I do think there's probably a middle ground here, people do have the option to say "no" - they just don't buy it. I think the motivation behind that is both a financial one (Apple makes money on the bricks) but also a psychological one (people won't pay money for something they don't actually need, thereby reducing e-waste).
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