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YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

reuters.com

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Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#751

Post by kazinator »

janoside wrote: post #737
cwhiz wrote: post #631

The YouTube suggestion algorithm is the problem! Create a new account, watch any political video, and then click through the suggestions. Keep clicking through the suggestions and in hour you will be on some extremist nonsense. YouTube is the source of this problem, and their solution is censorship? It's ridiculous. Show people the videos they have subscribed or searched for, and that's it. The majority of people don…

We cannot expect any actor (human or otherwise) to act against their own best interest. Google/Youtube, an entity with incentives, will act to maximize it's share of your time spent with them - it cannot function any other way, lest a competitor does that job better and they are destroyed/bought. We can wish for the underlying dynamics to be different, but they are what they are. All of society is currently lost in h…

All else being the same, an actor will also minimize its cost and effort. Youtube can captivate viewers even if its suggestion system doesn't select videos for quality, so why bother implementing it.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#752

Post by crusso »

owlbynight wrote: post #174

I'll preface this by stating that I hate the idea of censorship and I always have. However, were I to happen across someone motionless on the floor with a needle in their arm, I would give them NARCAN instead of a ride to a rehab center. I'm from the United States. Social media is currently poisoning our country to a degree that I think it may be too late to try and draw out the fight for free speech by using free sp…

I personally think that this is now a war for democracy

In this war for democracy, which side of the war do you think wants everyone to be able to access any information and which side do you think wants to control the flow of information?

How can we value each and every voter's input if we don't value their ability to filter for themselves what is true?

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#753

Post by gdulli »

owlbynight wrote: post #174

I'll preface this by stating that I hate the idea of censorship and I always have. However, were I to happen across someone motionless on the floor with a needle in their arm, I would give them NARCAN instead of a ride to a rehab center. I'm from the United States. Social media is currently poisoning our country to a degree that I think it may be too late to try and draw out the fight for free speech by using free sp…

You're exactly right that we don't have a single important principle we need to protect, we have a complex tapestry of many that we need to balance.

Total censorship with total security isn't the answer. Total freedom with the total loss of truth is also not the answer. As anyone should expect, the ideal is not at either extreme.

Is it messy trying to sort it out, will mistakes get made, will some decisions make some people unhappy? Yes. But it's where we're at. It's the price we pay for living in a society that's nurtured fraud and money-driven nihilism for so long.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#754

Post by [deleted] »

owlbynight wrote: post #174

I'll preface this by stating that I hate the idea of censorship and I always have. However, were I to happen across someone motionless on the floor with a needle in their arm, I would give them NARCAN instead of a ride to a rehab center. I'm from the United States. Social media is currently poisoning our country to a degree that I think it may be too late to try and draw out the fight for free speech by using free sp…

[deleted]

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#755

Post by crusso »

BariumBlue wrote: post #545
dgb23 wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> things are going to need to be sacrificed I say this for emphasis, not to personally attack you: Whenever I read or hear this it makes me extremely suspicious, because it often doesn't come from those who will do the sacrifice themselves. Censorship and other forms of regulating free speech is simply never a good solution. Perpetrators of lies will even hide behind this, and create a false image of rebellious heroi…

> Perpetrators of lies will even hide behind this, and create a false image of rebellious heroism, instead of facing public discourse and the consequences thereof. Unfortunately, I think it's a bit of a classical liberal ideal that "the truth will come through and those who were wrong will see the error of their ways". To some, the truth is a tool. If it's not a useful tool, it will be discarded. Probably a more usef…

I think it's naive to say that laissez faire speech is going to solve all issues

The arguments for free speech are fundamentally the same arguments for democracy itself.

If people can't decide the value of information, why again are we trusting in the decision-making value of each and every voter?

If we filter speech, maybe we should just cut to the chase and filter out voters by testing of some sort?

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#756

Post by nendroid »

nineplay wrote: post #661
cwhiz wrote: post #631

The YouTube suggestion algorithm is the problem! Create a new account, watch any political video, and then click through the suggestions. Keep clicking through the suggestions and in hour you will be on some extremist nonsense. YouTube is the source of this problem, and their solution is censorship? It's ridiculous. Show people the videos they have subscribed or searched for, and that's it. The majority of people don…

You don't even have to watch a political video. I have crap popping up all the time, "Watch this professor get destroyed by !" I know youtube is a shithole and yet it still surprises me. My son's favorite kid's show is only on YouTube so I created a new account, subscribed just to their channel and still inappropriate content shows up. How hard is this? I also can't block it for my daughter because she has school ass…

Your kid will be corrupted by society anyway. What's this whole thing about protecting children from the reality of the real world anyway?

A bit off topic but a serious question. What's your logical reasoning for blocking the content now. It's just slowing down what he will be able to see (by deliberately going around you) within a couple years. I never understood this with parents.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#757

Post by pessimizer »

nendroid wrote: post #756
nineplay wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't even have to watch a political video. I have crap popping up all the time, "Watch this professor get destroyed by !" I know youtube is a shithole and yet it still surprises me. My son's favorite kid's show is only on YouTube so I created a new account, subscribed just to their channel and still inappropriate content shows up. How hard is this? I also can't block it for my daughter because she has school ass…

Your kid will be corrupted by society anyway. What's this whole thing about protecting children from the reality of the real world anyway? A bit off topic but a serious question. What's your logical reasoning for blocking the content now. It's just slowing down what he will be able to see (by deliberately going around you) within a couple years. I never understood this with parents.

You've never understood why parents protect children from things that they will eventually be exposed to as adults? If your goal is to give your children unfiltered access to "reality," parents are entirely unnecessary after birth.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#758

Post by ketzo »

javajosh wrote: post #505
TeMPOraL wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it follows that 10% or so of the population are, well, nuts. Another 10% are so are willing to do anything to become famous. It has always been this way. Not sure that's true, though. Here's a cloud to cover your sunshine: what if the very concept that beliefs have to correspond to observable reality is a relatively new one, or a relatively unpopular one (with a 10% of the population subscribing to it)? What if it'…

Thank you for saying this. It takes the discussion in a different, but I think more useful, direction. Suffering is caused when you believe something that isn't true, and the rational idealists don't want to accept "it's natural for people to believe in lies", as you say. (There is a juicy irony here, which I will leave as an exercise for the reader.) The key innovation we require, as a society, are better feedback m…

I definitely agree on the cancel culture aspect. I'm just out of college, and for people my age and younger, there is such a desperate and helpless anger towards the people in power.

There is absolutely nothing concrete that I can do on a day-to-day basis to protect my world, my friends, my family from people that I watch lie, cheat, and steal on national television. It's absolutely sickening.

I vote, and I canvass, and I donate. But man, when I see someone on twitter talking about how they think gay people should be shot like animals or something equally insane, it feels like there's one small right thing I could do, which is to make that person feel like shit. I don't, mostly -- it's just a toxic cycle for my personal wellbeing -- but I see the attraction. Yelling at people online (and to a further extent, excluding them from your world) feels like the only thing you can do sometimes.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#759

Post by mlindner »

ativzzz wrote: post #702
kyle_martin1 wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The realities of censorship are and historically have been large net losses. That was one of the large premises of the founding of the United States, among many other ideals. So in the interest humanity and historical evidence, censorship is and will always be a bad idea. The best ideas will eventually win, as history has also shown us. Source: US constitution, Venezuelan history, Romanian history, British history, K…

I'm pretty sure current China would disagree with you given the amount of people they've raised from essentially peasantry to a modern middle class in the past generation.

That experiment is still ongoing and it's unclear what the ultimate result will be. They've very much not reached steady state yet.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#760

Post by throwmeaway_pls »

taf2 wrote: post #494
owlbynight wrote: post #174

I'll preface this by stating that I hate the idea of censorship and I always have. However, were I to happen across someone motionless on the floor with a needle in their arm, I would give them NARCAN instead of a ride to a rehab center. I'm from the United States. Social media is currently poisoning our country to a degree that I think it may be too late to try and draw out the fight for free speech by using free sp…

I think it’s risky to believe something is a war. It’s too often this line of thinking that is used to remove civil liberties. I take a different view. We are actively having an open debate and that is a good thing. YouTube is not part of our government, they are like a magazine or tv station of the past and they can and IMO have the right to choose what content they allow or disallow and this is totally fine and has…

That’s an overly simplistic and reductive view of free speech rights. Can my internet service provider shut off my access if I spend too much time reading “misinformation”? Can they give the government a list of all the people reading “misinformation”? Can they require I attend a reeducation program before restoring my access?
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