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Charisma: Now You’ve Got It, Now You Don’t

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Re: Charisma: Now You’ve Got It, Now You Don’t

#41

Post by AlwaysRock »

ravenstine wrote: post #19
hedberg10 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dr Ramani is pretty awesome, but all her views are heavily skewed towards narcissism and it's dangers, rightfully so, since people seem to underestimate that trait. It all depends how you define charisma. If it's "larger than life" it can be and is often abused, if it's "easy to be around and suave" that comes closer to what I would think charisma is.

I liked Ramani until I realized that every other day she posts videos where she repeats the same material she's covered countless times in the past. I became convinced that you could watch her whole YouTube channel and conclude that everyone around you is a narcissist. This isn't to say that she hasn't made lots of good and valid content, but I find it ironic that she uses her own apparent charisma to exploit a topic…

Don't look too closely at daily content creators... Most of them end up rehashing the same advice in slightly different ways. The information is fresh to new viewers and repeat viewers are not likely to watch their content every single day.

Re: Charisma: Now You’ve Got It, Now You Don’t

#42

Post by 082349872349872 »

bgroat wrote: post #34
motohagiography wrote: post #18

There is a saying that, "all political careers end in failure," which references this aspect of charisma where you have it - until you don't. It is an example of what happens when you fail a test of charisma, where you never really get it back in that particular relationship to those people. I read Olivia Fox-Cabane's work on charisma (Charisma Myth) and she showed how it can be a set of attributes you can practice.…

I've been writing about this a lot lately. Intellectuals tend to be VERY dismissive of critically looking at charisma and persuasion as tools. They're convinced that since they're ideas are SO GOOD they should will just be accepted upon stating facts. Besides, only manipulators and cult leaders try to be charismatic and persuasive. But I argue that "If only bad people study charismatic persuasion, then only bad peopl…

on the rhetorical value of appeals to reason: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24697600

Re: Charisma: Now You’ve Got It, Now You Don’t

#43

Post by tartoran »

mc32 wrote: post #20
motohagiography wrote: post #18

There is a saying that, "all political careers end in failure," which references this aspect of charisma where you have it - until you don't. It is an example of what happens when you fail a test of charisma, where you never really get it back in that particular relationship to those people. I read Olivia Fox-Cabane's work on charisma (Charisma Myth) and she showed how it can be a set of attributes you can practice.…

Let’s not forget charismatic (but ultimately unsympathetic) leaders like Castro and the Che. They were by any measure charismatic. They leveraged that to further their visions to an end. But, not all charismatic people use their charisma for the bad. Some use it to form friendships and to climb social ladders, some to be productive in their role (salespeople), etc. For some people it comes naturally. For some it’s fo…

I traveled to Cuba and changed my badly shaped opinion of Castro. If you have the chance give it a shot. I think Castro was really sympathetic to the Cuban's plight and did more for the country than many others for their own countries. Cubans are calm, educated and friendly, but poor by our own standards. But guess what? They're not unhappy at all, depression there is almost nonexistent and contrasting that to how widespread it is in the western world it clearly shows an unsettling trend. And FYI Castro lived a modest live, he didn't seek to own a lot of material goods like a lot of other leaders.

Re: Charisma: Now You’ve Got It, Now You Don’t

#44

Post by jasonv »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #39
bgroat wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been writing about this a lot lately. Intellectuals tend to be VERY dismissive of critically looking at charisma and persuasion as tools. They're convinced that since they're ideas are SO GOOD they should will just be accepted upon stating facts. Besides, only manipulators and cult leaders try to be charismatic and persuasive. But I argue that "If only bad people study charismatic persuasion, then only bad peopl…

Most of the mediocrely talented but very successful people I know get by with high charisma. Or putting in many more hours than others. I don't know which one is easier to maintain over the course of a career.

I'm close to some very-charismatic people, in music and business... and if they falter in life, the charisma habit can definitely be a trap. They keep charisma-ing hard, but the reality of their circumstances are hard to square with their immediate effect on people. But real outcomes are often the result of longer term efforts and circumstances. And later in life, the "luck" factor seems harder to capitalize on..

I was once denied an opportunity by a Hollywood finance guy because, as he said, "You're not that smooth.." He was smooth, but not exactly charismatic. Possibly another side of a related coin.

Re: Charisma: Now You’ve Got It, Now You Don’t

#45

Post by ravenstine »

b0rsuk wrote: post #32
ravenstine wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked Ramani until I realized that every other day she posts videos where she repeats the same material she's covered countless times in the past. I became convinced that you could watch her whole YouTube channel and conclude that everyone around you is a narcissist. This isn't to say that she hasn't made lots of good and valid content, but I find it ironic that she uses her own apparent charisma to exploit a topic…

Dr Grande has a very good channel and it's hard to find a flaw in it. I guess it's relatively unexciting - until you hear him talk about guns. In my opinion there's a narcissism epidemic going on. Charisma is seen not just as a trait but as a value. Everyone wants some. It's lumped together with good leadership, extroversion etc. Charismatic selfish people are praised as CEOs, celebrities, youtubers, politicians, act…

> In my opinion there's a narcissism epidemic going on. Charisma is seen not just as a trait but as a value. Everyone wants some. It's lumped together with good leadership, extroversion etc. Charismatic selfish people are praised as CEOs, celebrities, youtubers, politicians, actors. And enthralled people keep making excuses for them! And calling YOU crazy.

Without going into detail, I can very much relate to this. The grandiose narcissists are much easier to identify, most of the time, but vulnerable narcissism(which I think most narcissists are) is more socially acceptable and reliant on empathetic energy, making it harder to point out. On social media in particular, they can easily form cults of victims whom end up enabling the narcissist. I'm normally not that bothered by narcissists, but there have been a few times where I pointed out that a public figure is a narcissist, along with concrete details on their lies and misdirection, and got mostly backlash for it. What's funny is my predictions have always turned out to be right because narcissists really aren't that difficult to understand. Most of them aren't even good at keeping their stories straight.

Re: Charisma: Now You’ve Got It, Now You Don’t

#46

Post by hindsightbias »

wallflower wrote: post #36

> I once shook hands with Bill Clinton, and for one tiny moment, he made me feel like the most important person in the world. That's charisma. > It's not far off from love, is it? When someone's in love with you, they see you as the most wonderful person in the world. It's a hell of a feeling. If you can do that for people you're not in love with, you've got charisma. (From the start of that comment) > I think the fo…

I shook hands with Clinton in 1990. Did not know at that moment who he was, but knew he was important. Not physically the guy other guys would think had movie star looks or charisma (say, like JFK), but very confident and looked you straight in the eye.

Everyone at that event can tell you what conversation they had with him and every conversation was on a different topic. He was curious, approachable, a sponge of knowledge and never forgot a face and name (particularly if you were attractive).

So you can get along with decent looks, a bit of charisma, but a lot farther if you know how to be engaging in conversations and make people feel special/important.

Re: Charisma: Now You’ve Got It, Now You Don’t

#47

Post by randycupertino »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #39
bgroat wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been writing about this a lot lately. Intellectuals tend to be VERY dismissive of critically looking at charisma and persuasion as tools. They're convinced that since they're ideas are SO GOOD they should will just be accepted upon stating facts. Besides, only manipulators and cult leaders try to be charismatic and persuasive. But I argue that "If only bad people study charismatic persuasion, then only bad peopl…

Most of the mediocrely talented but very successful people I know get by with high charisma. Or putting in many more hours than others. I don't know which one is easier to maintain over the course of a career.

> Most of the mediocrely talented but very successful people I know get by with high charisma. Or putting in many more hours than others.

I think I do both! I'm extremely charismatic but imo not that bright so coast on personality but sometimes fall back on working lots of hours.

My charisma story is that I was very naturally attractive but then had an accident and gained a large % of bodyweight while bedridden for over six months. When I came back into the real world I sort of got forced to improve my personality because I could no longer coast on looks!

Re: Charisma: Now You’ve Got It, Now You Don’t

#48

Post by 082349872349872 »

o_class_star wrote: post #23

As I get older, my theory of charisma is that it's a product, more than it is an innate trait, and that anyone can "become charismatic", although 99.9 percent of people never will, and the worst thing you can do for yourself is try. People seem superhuman-- energetic, brilliant, capable-- when surrounded by people who invest themselves entirely in making them seem so. Steve Jobs had no special social acumen, above-av…

> What they don't realize is that by following the charismatic, they're defeating their own purpose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Dictator premiered 80 years ago today.

Re: Charisma: Now You’ve Got It, Now You Don’t

#49

Post by anonu »

Today are the US Presidential town halls - held separately on 2 different TV networks. The Trump version was announced 2 days ago while the Biden one was planned a bit before that.

Whatever you think of Trump, he's playing a game of chess.

Who's going to get the better ratings? I would wager that even people voting for Biden would probably be more interested in tuning into Trump - just purely from an entertainment point of view. I can see Trump touting his outsized ratings post town-hall.

I may be wrong. Maybe even a bit cynical at this stage....

Re: Charisma: Now You’ve Got It, Now You Don’t

#50

Post by epylar »

bgroat wrote: post #34
motohagiography wrote: post #18

There is a saying that, "all political careers end in failure," which references this aspect of charisma where you have it - until you don't. It is an example of what happens when you fail a test of charisma, where you never really get it back in that particular relationship to those people. I read Olivia Fox-Cabane's work on charisma (Charisma Myth) and she showed how it can be a set of attributes you can practice.…

I've been writing about this a lot lately. Intellectuals tend to be VERY dismissive of critically looking at charisma and persuasion as tools. They're convinced that since they're ideas are SO GOOD they should will just be accepted upon stating facts. Besides, only manipulators and cult leaders try to be charismatic and persuasive. But I argue that "If only bad people study charismatic persuasion, then only bad peopl…

I used to believe in raw merit/good ideas. I still believe they're good, but not that they're particularly effective in dealing with most people.
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