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San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

bloomberg.com

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Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#631

Post by carlob »

Daishiman wrote: post #603
carlob wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are probably used to this rotation just because you grew up in the US. As someone who has grown up in Italy we don't think about food this way, not even regionally. I.e. don't expect a great risotto in Naples or a decent carbonara in Milan...

This isn't a US thing, it's about cities with cosmopolitan tradition. Italians are the complete opposite of this culture.

I think there is a spectrum, the US being a country of immigrants is on one extreme, Italy having been several different independent states up to 160 years ago and having many different climates and cultures is on the other. While it's true that the Italian approach to cuisine might be overly provincial I think that most of the world is closer to Italy than the US.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#632

Post by metalforever »

burlesona wrote: post #175
komali2 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that it's a demand problem alone. There was tons of new construction. If I wanted to, I could have moved to any neighborhood in the city on a whim... As long as I was willing to move into a brand new luxury apartment $4k studio. The demand was high for reasonably priced older units. "Just add new construction" doesn't work if all that gets built is luxury apartments.

There have been a number of studies looking at this, but the TLDR is that globally most new construction is and always has been high-end compared to the surrounding market. What typically happens in a healthy market is the rich overwhelmingly live in new construction (or remodels), and everyone else lives in the places that rich people lived in 10, 15, 20, or more years ago. Since construction is durable, a luxury ap…

In NYC, things are actually moving in reverse. In properties where the poor lived 10, 15, 20 years ago the rich live now.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#633

Post by perl4ever »

kelnos wrote: post #522
mancerayder wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you were downvoted. Even if someone supports renaming a school called Lincoln to something else, the ... extreme nature of such a thing is a consideration for people to consider whether or not SF is a nice place to live. Because there are people in charge making decisions like this, and people in charge wield power, and if you live in SF you'll be subservient to these leaders. I'll add, the fact ther…

I think the downvotes fall into two categories. Some people agree with the renaming, and others just don't care either way. In a subthread about why people might want to move away from SF, "they're going to rename some schools" is not particularly relevant, and comes off a little flamebaity. My personal opinion is that some of the renaming is a bit over the top, but I'm glad we're re-examining our historical "heroes"…

I assumed "everybody knows" that Lincoln was not a super abolitionist. And "of course" it's ok if people don't regard him as a super hero.

But despite being a lifelong Democrat there is a certain level of concern over purity that makes me uneasy. All my Jewish cousins who were in Europe mysteriously disappeared during WWII. Yet, I own and enjoy a German car whose corporate origins are very intertwined with the history of that period of time. I think the Apollo program was pretty cool, and that was fundamentally rooted in the exploitation of German expertise from rocket research involving Nazi slave labor during the war.

So, if someone is disgusted with these things and personally avoids them, that's cool. But if they are on a crusade to purify society from them, I probably don't want to be neighbors.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#634

Post by AtlasBarfed »

asdff wrote: post #467
AtlasBarfed wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you are right in the middle of this, what prevents you from walking out on the lease? As in, what starts a flood of renegotiation / changing apartments from similarly lease-locked renters?

yeah, the landlord will be chomping at the bit to find a new tenant in the middle of a pandemic to get you off the hook from your lease alright. real honest people, those landlords.

But what's legally binding? Can't the lease just be abandoned and you refuse to pay? It hurts reputation, but if the demand is so high for renters, they can reestablish reputation.

I guess I should have googled:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/SF-tenants-brea...

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#635

Post by Zanneth »

hal9000-tng wrote: post #583
throwaway1777 wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People really do need to zoom out a little bit. Yes, we may see negative or slow growth in some cities over the next couple years, but in 50 years? I would bet NYC, SF, and other big cities will be stronger than ever.

.. except there will probably be more pandemics within the next 50 years. Given that we've had multiple localized epidemics or global pandemics in the last two decades alone (SARS, Ebola, Swine Flu/H1N1, etc), the likelihood of more seems increasingly high. Perhaps it doesn't even matter whether the next one will have a higher CFR; whether large cities prosper depends not only on whether people believe it will, but a…

Are suburbs any different? I’ve visited at least a dozen suburban areas during the current pandemic and they are all as equally affected by the pandemic as cities are.

It’s important to note also that sanitation, preparedness, and scientific knowledge will all continue to improve over time. Pandemics may become more common but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they will be as deadly or effective as the current one.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#636

Post by PascLeRasc »

geebee wrote: post #402
tathougies wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are certainly not wrong. This is a major problem in many places in the country. It's gross. Portland and Seattle are definitely much worse than SF. LA is much nicer than what it used to be, and still better than SF, but I grew up in LA so I have the natural tendency to ignore everything bad with it.

I hear you. San Franciscans historically had an extremely obnoxious tendency to only see the negative side of LA. Seems like it's fading a bit, though, partly because SF's are too severe to stay smug, and partly because LA keeps getting more interesting. I grew up in SF but moved to LA for a while in the late 90s to work in the software side of film compositing/editing. Finally opened my eyes to how much fun it is. M…

Did you work for Dolby or RED? I've always thought it'd be fascinating to work in software for pro film production. I'd really like to hear anything you have to share about your experience.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#637

Post by OkGoDoIt »

adjkant wrote: post #460
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says NYC rents dropped by 15% which is still significant.

I just added a caveat about that, but many of the top of market neighborhoods people tend to go for here haven't dropped nearly that much (e.g West Village area, Chelsea, UES/UWS). NYC is huge and that drop is not spread equally. Guessing it isn't in SF either, but it seems 31% is going to hit every neighborhood at least a good deal. Edited to add to this, see the spread in June: https://www.renthop.com/studies/nyc/r…

From what I’ve seen in San Francisco, the biggest decreases in rents have been in the newer upscale construction in SOMA. There’s nothing to do in SOMA other than walking to your tech office job and most of the restaurants around there are specifically for business lunch so many of them aren’t open now with the offices are be closed. Given all that, I imagine that area has seen the biggest exodus in the city. Plus the rents were stratospheric to begin with, so even a 30% drop is still ridiculously expensive. In other parts of San Francisco prices have dropped but not nearly as much as in SOMA.

This is all from my casual observations on craigslist and Zillow, I would love to see broader data and analysis if anyone has any

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#638

Post by harambae »

thu2111 wrote: post #574
ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I’ll add that demand hasn’t gone anywhere, in fact, it’s higher than ever. When things fully reopen there’s gonna be a sort of boom in entertainment/restaurant/travel industry

I think there's an implicit assumption here that there will be a definite end date to this. I really hope there is, but there's another possibility that looks more likely as time goes on: lockdown has permanently broken the brains of some types of political leader and they will in fact never fully release the restrictions. Places like SF and NY will have long term restrictions lasting years, justified in the name of…

I'm curious if this will ever end either. For example, my understanding is...

30% of people will never take a vaccine [0]

The first couple vaccines will be 40-60% effective [1]

Similar vaccines never exceed 70% effectiveness. [2]

It's unclear how many boosters you'll need, etc.

I hope someone out there is crunching the numbers and seeing the issue.

[0] https://news.gallup.com/poll/317018/one-three-americans-not-... [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/09/12/9119879... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#639

Post by genericone »

perl4ever wrote: post #633
kelnos wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the downvotes fall into two categories. Some people agree with the renaming, and others just don't care either way. In a subthread about why people might want to move away from SF, "they're going to rename some schools" is not particularly relevant, and comes off a little flamebaity. My personal opinion is that some of the renaming is a bit over the top, but I'm glad we're re-examining our historical "heroes"…

I assumed "everybody knows" that Lincoln was not a super abolitionist. And "of course" it's ok if people don't regard him as a super hero. But despite being a lifelong Democrat there is a certain level of concern over purity that makes me uneasy. All my Jewish cousins who were in Europe mysteriously disappeared during WWII. Yet, I own and enjoy a German car whose corporate origins are very intertwined with the histor…

And you definitely don't want them as an _unelected_ committee member with authority to decide the direction of your children's educational future.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#640

Post by perl4ever »

genericone wrote: post #639
perl4ever wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assumed "everybody knows" that Lincoln was not a super abolitionist. And "of course" it's ok if people don't regard him as a super hero. But despite being a lifelong Democrat there is a certain level of concern over purity that makes me uneasy. All my Jewish cousins who were in Europe mysteriously disappeared during WWII. Yet, I own and enjoy a German car whose corporate origins are very intertwined with the histor…

And you definitely don't want them as an _unelected_ committee member with authority to decide the direction of your children's educational future.

I do think a community should decide. I don't think outsiders should be telling people they have to keep the school named after Lincoln, if they want to change it, democratically.
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