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The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

economist.com

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Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#251

Post by DFHippie »

mrageh wrote: post #213

Majority SJW are hypocrites, they spend all their energy and time battling against shit that's minor. Like changing the name of repos, removing certain words from a massive project etc. Making sure certain peoples feelings are protected. Yet when it comes to serious problems in our world, like Uyghur muslims being persecuted they remain silent. Or when western countries destroy Libya and give birth slavery in Africa,…

I don't think your mental model of the behavior of "social justice warriors" is accurate. Do you really think the people you demonize for expressing sympathy for people outside their own tribe are silent in these cases and the people you implicitly praise for keeping silent about injustices they do not suffer themselves are the heroes complaining on the internet about the treatment of the Uighurs?

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#252

Post by boomboomsubban »

sgift wrote: post #214
thablackbull wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, but it gets boring. Nobody is going to call for sanctions on America for anything and you'll never see a constant stream of articles for anything the US does. When the US drops a record amount of bombs on a country[1] in a war people barely think about anymore and people barely blink an eye, is it really humans (lets not even talk about human rights yet), but rather just our fellow human beings, that people care…

The Afghanistan war is a UN security council sanctioned action (Resolution 1386, creating ISAF, later succeeded by Resolute Support). Since the resolution was unanimously adopted by the security council it would be quite a leap to try to sanction a country for participating in it.

The resolution does not permit the invasion of Afghanistan, and was passed two months after the war had started. Invading a country with out UN approved casus belli is a valid reason for sanctions.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#253

Post by [deleted] »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #60
LatteLazy wrote: post #54

I'm no fan of the US, but too many people here are basically saying "the US does bad stuff too". You're not wrong, your point just irrelevant. 2 things can be bad without either excusing the other...

Yes but we must be equally outraged about it. Especially since Americans have more power to change the actions of their own government.

[deleted]

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#254

Post by spurgu »

wil421 wrote: post #199
scotty79 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm only posting this because I never intend to visit American soil. Otherwise I wouldn't dare. Because I know that these kinds of messages might be connected to my person and used against me if I ever come in conflict with American enforcement.

How would you know what it was like in America if you’ve never even visited?

What kind of an argument is that? Rhetorical question. We're talking about China here. Have all the people commenting here lived in China? Also a rhetorical question.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#255

Post by ASlave2Gravity »

darkerside wrote: post #175
ASlave2Gravity wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever met a Falun Gong practitioner?

Have you ever met a Holocaust survivor?

Nope - good point!

I suppouse I want to see more UN involvement with the Organ Harvesting. It's insanely barbaric and shouldn't be happerning. But I think people like Alex Jones have given it more credit. I don't have enough data to make valid conclusion about it. But the Falun Gong practitioners I have met scared the crap out of me. It felt a lot like Scientology vibes. Does that mean we should harvest their organs? No, clearly. That's insane to like the nth-degree.

e: also, as the wiki states, Ethan Gutmann's investigations are pretty striking. Same as the China Tribunal in London. This has moved on a lot since I last read up on it. Christ.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#256

Post by oxymoran »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #173
Subsentient wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we focus on China? Because they're usually doing worse things, and on larger scales, than the West.

They haven't committed crimes on the scale of the invasions of Vietnam and Iraq in the last 50 years.

Yea the cultural revolution where the Red Guard roved the country murdering millions of innocent people was 52 years ago so you are technically right. Get this: they even engaged in cannibalism as an ideological purity test! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangxi_Massacre

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#257

Post by DavidSJ »

oxymoran wrote: post #250
DavidSJ wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm referring specifically to the Uyghur situation. Trump may have done all sorts of things China doesn't like, and I'm not interested in getting into a general political debate about the merits of each of those things, but he hasn't done much about the Uyghur situation, aside from when his arm's been twisted by Congress. His personal concern in Chinese trade policy seems mainly to be mercantilist (minimizing trade d…

What exactly can he do outside of economics sanction? It’s either that or saber rattling. We don’t want a war with China, that would be a global catastrophe. We just want to keep them in check long enough for communism to inevitably collapse once again.

Economic sanctions would be good, if they were conditioned on China's treatment of Uyghurs. But they're not.

Right now, to the extent that they're conditioned on anything at all (and I'm going to refrain from a broader critique of Trump's goals and methods of negotiation here), they're conditioned on trade balance, intellectual property, currency manipulation, 5G, and the like. Some of these are worthy objectives, some not. But at the end of the day, they do nothing for the Uyghur population if Trump says to Xi, "do whatever you want with the Uyghurs, I don't care; I just want you to buy more of our stuff".

For leverage to work on issue A, you actually have to say (and follow through on): "If you do A, I'll do X, and if you don't do A, I'll do Y." If you replace A with B, you can't expect any traction on issue A.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#258

Post by joelbluminator »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #196
joelbluminator wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, everbody thinks they're doing the right thing. U.S was saving Vietnam from communism and later was saving the world from Saddam's WMD or Afghanistans taliban. China is saving their country from civil disintegration and helps create a uniform culture for the greater good. See what I did there?

The Japanese in WW2 were also trying to create an "earthly paradise" in South East Asia.

True. You can't take that away from the U.S, they helped save the free world (together with the allies and Russia). Things are complex.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#259

Post by oxymoran »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #64
tsjq wrote: post #36

Quite surprised that the Al Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS, et al Global-Islamic-Caliphate forces haven't tried anything at this aggression against Muslims in China.

Maybe because they prefer to focus on countries that project their forces abroad to build empires (starting with oil resources)?

China is trying to become the world hegemony. If that’s not empire building, I don’t know what is.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#260

Post by DavidSJ »

oxymoran wrote: post #244
DavidSJ wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One possibility is that some economic pressure can be brought to bear by a Biden administration, perhaps in concert with other Western countries. Edited to add: This statement is political, but the genocide against Uyghurs is political too, and if we want to hold our leaders accountable to doing something about it, we need to acknowledge facts. Trump had previously indicated he wasn't interested in letting such matte…

What exactly is political about genocide? Genocide is a byproduct of ideological derangement. American corporations are beholden to China’s massive market and Biden is beholden to American corporations. It is far more likely that Biden capitulates to China than puts any economic pressure on them.

My dictionary defines political as "relating to the government or the public affairs of a country". Given that genocide is the policy of the Chinese government, it's a political matter.
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