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The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

economist.com

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Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#161

Post by mclightning »

scotty79 wrote: post #107
zpeti wrote: post #18

“Here's my strategy on the Cold War: we win, they lose.” ― Ronald Reagan I think it's becoming clearer and clearer that this strategy has to be adopted with China as well. They are out to win, to dominate the world, and they won't back down, and they will use any method to do it. And ask yourself if the world you see inside China is what you want spreading.

The world I see inside USA doesn't seem like something worth spreading either.

I'm not sure if we would all feel that safe sharing that sentiment in an internet run by China. West might be failing in a lot of things, but it is best we have.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#162

Post by LatteLazy »

learnstats2 wrote: post #104
LatteLazy wrote: post #54

I'm no fan of the US, but too many people here are basically saying "the US does bad stuff too". You're not wrong, your point just irrelevant. 2 things can be bad without either excusing the other...

The point is to illustrate that this article is serving an anti-China narrative, which has been motivated over several years and decades by right-wing politicians looking for a palatable enemy to unite behind (replacing Russia in this role) China can and does do bad things, but why do we read about that more often and with more emphasis than Western countries doing bad things?

The issue with this is it requires us to look into people's souls and know their motivations. We can't do that. Maybe this is being reported because it serves someone's narrative. Maybe it's honestly because it's bad. Either way it is bad, so who cares why, action should be taken.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#163

Post by anrsaxen »

newbie578 wrote: post #33

The future looks scary if China is going to lead the world. Our best bet is to share wealth and innovation to all the other countries to try and reduce economic power of a single country. Having India, Pakistan, Thailand, Taiwan, Korea and Japan grow enough to create a sort of "buffer zone" around China.

Fair suggestion, however in this list - Pakistan is China's client state since decades. China has provided Pakistan everything from missiles to nuclear bomb to military drones. And now China is building its Belt and Road's largest project through Pakistan. Time to identify which countries are in Chinese camp (North Korea, Pakistan, a few African dictatorships).

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#164

Post by coldtea »

jiuahweruihawi wrote: post #100
ianleeclark wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be acknowledged that this strategy ultimately ended up with the Taliban and our 20+ year occupation of Afghanistan and various massacres throughout central america. > The presidency of Ronald Reagan in the United States was marked by multiple scandals, resulting in the investigation, indictment, or conviction of over 138 administration officials Which was (still is?) The most for any president.

I mean, it also led to the fall of a tyrannical regime that murdered tens of millions and was every bit as sadistic and evil as Nazi Germany. So there's that.

Did it led to that? Because the "tyrannical regime" was progressively more open since the 60s, and it fell all by itself actually...

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#165

Post by Miner49er »

zpeti wrote: post #50
Miner49er wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the US really much better than China? We do similar to black, Native American, and immigrant people. I'm not sure I want either winning in their current state.

The US has concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants, where they reeducate you to follow a tyrannical political system? Are they tracked through a social credit system where you can't get a train out of your town if it's bad? Where journalists repeteadly disappear? Where a treaty with the UK is ripped up and a city is invaded? Yeah. Accurate.

> concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants

Maybe not to the scale of China, but basically. They are prison, reservations, and immigration detention centers.

> Are they tracked through a social credit system where you can't get a train out of your town if it's bad?

Again, not as bad in the US, probably, but we do have a credit system that can make it much more difficult for certain people to have a place to live, buy a car, or get a job. Add on the felony system, and we also take away their right to vote, and again make it harder for them to get good jobs. Finally, we even have a no-fly list.

> Where journalists repeteadly disappear?

Does that happen in China? A quick Google search didn't bring up much. I do agree that the US has more freedom of speech.

> Where a treaty with the UK is ripped up and a city is invaded?

We have and still regularly do this with treaties we made with Native American tribes.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#166

Post by NamTaf »

ASlave2Gravity wrote: post #69
zpeti wrote: post #18

“Here's my strategy on the Cold War: we win, they lose.” ― Ronald Reagan I think it's becoming clearer and clearer that this strategy has to be adopted with China as well. They are out to win, to dominate the world, and they won't back down, and they will use any method to do it. And ask yourself if the world you see inside China is what you want spreading.

I'm gonna get a lot of flak for this, but I think there's a massive anti-China narrative on HN. I see so much talk that's based off of people's view from an entirely Western media-centred POV. There's so much more to what's going on. There's a lot of pot calling the kettle black too. There's a lot of good stuff in the TLS from a few weeks back. Han is the cultural race/ethnicity in mainland China. [0] It's about 92%…

Just to be clear, 'Han Chinese' is a group whose definition has gradually broadened over the long history of China to include more and more formerly distinct ethnic groups within it. A cynic would claim that this was a deliberate decision in order to create a much more robust, ethnically homogenous state that can more easily play up the 'us vs them' division.

You're also confusing "China" the CCP governmental apparatus, with "Chinese citizens" as individual people. When people criticise "China", it is the former they are criticising. Confusing the two only serves to further play into the 'us vs them' divide.

Both of these factors are commonly used by the Chinese state to frame anti-China sentiment as anti-Chinese sentiment - a very important difference.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#167

Post by wombatmobile »

jiuahweruihawi wrote: post #96
wombatmobile wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now is nothing special. Australia commenced a two-year term as a non-permanent member of the UN Security Council on On 1 January 2013. Australia–East Timor spying scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia-East_Timor_spying_sc... Then on 16 October 2017, in New York, the United Nations General Assembly elected Australia to serve on the Human Rights Council (HRC) for the 2018-20 term. Witness K and the 'outrageou…

So bugging a political opponent's room is comparable to exterminating an entire ethnic group?

> So bugging a political opponent's room is comparable to exterminating an entire ethnic group?

That's your association, not mine.

I posted to illustrate that membership of a UN council doesn't require ethics or morality.

The consequences of spying on East Timor to gain an advantage in negotiations over oil reserves were that new nation's only source of foreign revenue was severely compromised. East Timorese lived in poverty and the new government was weakened. Is that so different from what bothers you about the plight of the Uyghurs?

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#168

Post by Subsentient »

learnstats2 wrote: post #104
LatteLazy wrote: post #54

I'm no fan of the US, but too many people here are basically saying "the US does bad stuff too". You're not wrong, your point just irrelevant. 2 things can be bad without either excusing the other...

The point is to illustrate that this article is serving an anti-China narrative, which has been motivated over several years and decades by right-wing politicians looking for a palatable enemy to unite behind (replacing Russia in this role) China can and does do bad things, but why do we read about that more often and with more emphasis than Western countries doing bad things?

Why do we focus on China? Because they're usually doing worse things, and on larger scales, than the West.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#169

Post by coldtea »

rayiner wrote: post #85
Miner49er wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the US really much better than China? We do similar to black, Native American, and immigrant people. I'm not sure I want either winning in their current state.

This is absurd. As a brown immigrant Muslim looking person, not only do I feel safer in the US than I would in China, I feel safer here than in France. Americans aren’t frothing at the mouth to ban Islamic religious clothing while schoolgirls in France have to remove their headscarves.

>This is absurd. As a brown immigrant Muslim looking person, not only do I feel safer in the US than I would in China, I feel safer here than in France.

Do muslim looking persons in muslim countries feel equally well protected from America?

>Americans aren’t frothing at the mouth to ban Islamic religious clothing while schoolgirls in France have to remove their headscarves.

That sounds like more progressive. Do women's rights in the West stop when it comes to muslim women -- where we "allow" them to wear headscarves lest they get beaten up by their fathers/spouses?

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#170

Post by eecc »

zpeti wrote: post #50
Miner49er wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the US really much better than China? We do similar to black, Native American, and immigrant people. I'm not sure I want either winning in their current state.

The US has concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants, where they reeducate you to follow a tyrannical political system? Are they tracked through a social credit system where you can't get a train out of your town if it's bad? Where journalists repeteadly disappear? Where a treaty with the UK is ripped up and a city is invaded? Yeah. Accurate.

Not to defend China, but the restitution of HK was agreed since long ago. And it would be naive to believe China wouldn’t have started to annex the city back, the last symbol of British colonial domination and the defeat of the Opium War.

Of course there’s no winner here, only losers...

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