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The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

economist.com

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Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#131

Post by tombh »

ASlave2Gravity wrote: post #69
zpeti wrote: post #18

“Here's my strategy on the Cold War: we win, they lose.” ― Ronald Reagan I think it's becoming clearer and clearer that this strategy has to be adopted with China as well. They are out to win, to dominate the world, and they won't back down, and they will use any method to do it. And ask yourself if the world you see inside China is what you want spreading.

I'm gonna get a lot of flak for this, but I think there's a massive anti-China narrative on HN. I see so much talk that's based off of people's view from an entirely Western media-centred POV. There's so much more to what's going on. There's a lot of pot calling the kettle black too. There's a lot of good stuff in the TLS from a few weeks back. Han is the cultural race/ethnicity in mainland China. [0] It's about 92%…

> China running the same plays from the playbook written by the Anglosphere war powers

Absolutely. All the comments like yours are downvoted. The West doesn't need autocracy to maintain its propaganda, its own citizens do it for them.

China is not innocent. But on what basis does the West have any moral authority to judge China's emulation of Western colonialism. I would argue very little. The West has made its bed and now it must sleep in it.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#132

Post by Fricken »

zpeti wrote: post #50
Miner49er wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the US really much better than China? We do similar to black, Native American, and immigrant people. I'm not sure I want either winning in their current state.

The US has concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants, where they reeducate you to follow a tyrannical political system? Are they tracked through a social credit system where you can't get a train out of your town if it's bad? Where journalists repeteadly disappear? Where a treaty with the UK is ripped up and a city is invaded? Yeah. Accurate.

The US has 2 million people locked in cages. If you seek the freedom to be locked in a cage, America is clearly the better country. Of course, America has a much higher crime rate. Those who enjoy the freedom of getting murdered are better off in the USA.

The crackdown in Xinjiang is a response to terrorist attacks. Both America and China are pretty reliable for grossly disproportionate responses to terrorist attacks that ruin the lives of millions.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#133

Post by DFHippie »

jkhdigital wrote: post #21
sudofail wrote: post #6

If anything can be considered the canary in the coal mine for a threat to world peace, this is it. Most people alive to day have experienced nothing but an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity. It's easy to take it for granted that progress is inevitable, and that wide scale war is a thing of the past. But the CCP's actions against the Uyghurs has shown the world what kind of leader China would be on the worl…

Collectivism can find a justification for almost any atrocity. Collectivist ideologies (which includes Nazism) have a pretty well-worn track record of inciting mass murder and Chinese communism was a clear example long before the oppression of the Uighurs. Hearing about the reality of enforcing the one-child policy was enough for me to make up my mind on the CCP.

The problem isn't collectivism but tribalism. The Han majority in this case don't extend their sympathy to the Uighurs or the Tibetans or the Mongols. The self-described Aryans didn't extend their sympathy to the Jews or the slavs or the Romany. There are plenty of individualists in the US who are indifferent or hostile to other "tribes", blacks or hispanics or native Americans or simply city dwellers, while being very solicitous of the interests of their tribe. I'm sure the Confederacy was full of rugged individualists. They loved Davy Crocket, who died at the Alamo defending the right to enslave Africans and seize land from Mexicans.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#134

Post by sudofail »

meiraleal wrote: post #121
sudofail wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s stop the false equivalency. Should more be done for the black community: absolutely. But black people aren’t locked up by the millions in internment camps.

false equivalency? if there is one I'd say the oppression to black people is way worse, specially with so many people invested in suppressing this discussion. It was the Uyghurs that built China's prosperity? Were they enslaved, lynched, segregated for centuries? I don't think there is really an equivalence. What the US did to the black people is a lot worse.

Tell the CCP I send my regards

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#135

Post by powerapple »

chaostheory wrote: post #67
Miner49er wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the US really much better than China? We do similar to black, Native American, and immigrant people. I'm not sure I want either winning in their current state.

As an immigrant who's experienced and seen both countries, yes, and that's with the US's glaring imperfections. We at least are brave enough to openly admit our faults, and it's in our history books and not whitewashed. imo that's a key step. Nothing else is possible if you can't admit that there's a problem, and getting to this step is nearly impossible without free speech In addition to freedom of speech, we also h…

No Iraqi is comparing US to Iraq. I don't understand why there is always a contest between US and China. US is a developed country, and China is a developing country. It is not a beauty contest. Also there does have to be only one winner. Maybe, just maybe, there is no need to mess up another country.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#136

Post by ASlave2Gravity »

PostOnce wrote: post #124
ASlave2Gravity wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gonna get a lot of flak for this, but I think there's a massive anti-China narrative on HN. I see so much talk that's based off of people's view from an entirely Western media-centred POV. There's so much more to what's going on. There's a lot of pot calling the kettle black too. There's a lot of good stuff in the TLS from a few weeks back. Han is the cultural race/ethnicity in mainland China. [0] It's about 92%…

The existence of Taiwan and the lack of any of the criticism you mention applying to it seem to be a good counterpoint to what you imply is anti-Han-Chinese sentiment. Rather, it's anti-CCP sentiment that is broad and deep in the West.

Yes - I bring up Taiwan a lot and I think Taiwan should be it's own thing. Same with HK. My cloest friend often has to deal with Han peeps hating on Hong Kongers - dinners can be quite hard sometimes. We're all trying to make peace and make bridges, not walls.

And yes, a very good point. It's imporant to split the govemerment from the people. I need to be more careful :)

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#137

Post by cpursley »

abc-xyz wrote: post #86
DavidSJ wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One possibility is that some economic pressure can be brought to bear by a Biden administration, perhaps in concert with other Western countries. Edited to add: This statement is political, but the genocide against Uyghurs is political too, and if we want to hold our leaders accountable to doing something about it, we need to acknowledge facts. Trump had previously indicated he wasn't interested in letting such matte…

What exactly did Biden do to stand up to China during the Obama/Biden administration (or throughout his political career)? Here’s an incomplete list of things Trump has done: - He refers to the Wuhan Virus as the China/Chinese Virus (CCP is trying very hard from distancing themselves from responsibility; they won’t even let us into Wuhan to investigate). - He started a trade war with China, which has forced companies…

Remember, you're not allowed to talk about anything positive the Trump admin has accomplished on hn. It's an unwritten rule.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#138

Post by DavidSJ »

abc-xyz wrote: post #86
DavidSJ wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One possibility is that some economic pressure can be brought to bear by a Biden administration, perhaps in concert with other Western countries. Edited to add: This statement is political, but the genocide against Uyghurs is political too, and if we want to hold our leaders accountable to doing something about it, we need to acknowledge facts. Trump had previously indicated he wasn't interested in letting such matte…

What exactly did Biden do to stand up to China during the Obama/Biden administration (or throughout his political career)? Here’s an incomplete list of things Trump has done: - He refers to the Wuhan Virus as the China/Chinese Virus (CCP is trying very hard from distancing themselves from responsibility; they won’t even let us into Wuhan to investigate). - He started a trade war with China, which has forced companies…

I'm referring specifically to the Uyghur situation. Trump may have done all sorts of things China doesn't like, and I'm not interested in getting into a general political debate about the merits of each of those things, but he hasn't done much about the Uyghur situation, aside from when his arm's been twisted by Congress. His personal concern in Chinese trade policy seems mainly to be mercantilist (minimizing trade deficits and whatnot).

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#139

Post by bloak »

Unfortunately, I don't think generating a load of anti-Chinese sentiment in Europe and North America is going to make the Chinese feel less threatened by the Uyghurs. Rather the reverse, I expect. So I'd recommend people express their support for the Uyghurs without, in effect, calling for a holy war against China.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#140

Post by dalbasal »

zdragnar wrote: post #24
goku99 wrote: post #12

I don't understand what's the point of UN when these things are happening in a permanent UNSC member country. This C has been causing nuisance to their neighbors all the time. They Debt-Trap poor nations and exploit them. From Mongols to India, every neighbor has a problem, they are probably most worst neighbor you could get. Recently it was in news with yet another conflict with India[1]. This needs to stop. Entire…

Didn't China just get on to the human rights committee too? Edit: yes, the human rights council, joined by Russia and Cuba. What a time to be alive.

IMO, this proves the counterpoint.

The UN isn't and isn't supposed to be a political body. It isn't idealistic and it isn't designed to prevent human rights abuses. It is designed to prevent nuclear war between SC members. The HRC is not going to prevent or even deter human rights abuses, it never has.

The UN isn't a world government, isn't supposed to be.

Basically, the UN is a moot point. The UN is not going to do anything about Uygyur persecution in China. Neither is anti-UN shite.

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