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The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

economist.com

81–90 of 323 posts

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#81
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants, where they reeducate you to follow a tyrannical political system? Are they tracked through a social credit system where you can't get a train out of your town if it's bad? Where journalists repeteadly disappear? Where a treaty with the UK is ripped up and a city is invaded? Yeah. Accurate.

Well, the US does have the concentration camps at the border where forced surgeries and sterilizations are being performed.

On a massive scale? Proof?

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#83

I wonder why Turkey (Uyghurs are Turks) has been so quiet about this. Oh yeah, they are busy finishing their own genocide...

Some genocides inspire silence.

West Papuan human rights tragedy mocked by new Australian PM

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2013/10/6/west-papuan-hum...

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#84
post #18

“Here's my strategy on the Cold War: we win, they lose.” ― Ronald Reagan I think it's becoming clearer and clearer that this strategy has to be adopted with China as well. They are out to win, to dominate the world, and they won't back down, and they will use any method to do it. And ask yourself if the world you see inside China is what you want spreading.

I'm gonna get a lot of flak for this, but I think there's a massive anti-China narrative on HN. I see so much talk that's based off of people's view from an entirely Western media-centred POV. There's so much more to what's going on. There's a lot of pot calling the kettle black too. There's a lot of good stuff in the TLS from a few weeks back. Han is the cultural race/ethnicity in mainland China. [0] It's about 92%…

> Is China out for world domination, I really don't think so. Every single one of my Chinese friends is about as sweet as they come.

... is this satire?

Edit: or do you believe there’s some kind of correlation between some individual Chinese you know and the CPCs plans?

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#85
post #18

“Here's my strategy on the Cold War: we win, they lose.” ― Ronald Reagan I think it's becoming clearer and clearer that this strategy has to be adopted with China as well. They are out to win, to dominate the world, and they won't back down, and they will use any method to do it. And ask yourself if the world you see inside China is what you want spreading.

Is the US really much better than China? We do similar to black, Native American, and immigrant people. I'm not sure I want either winning in their current state.

This is absurd. As a brown immigrant Muslim looking person, not only do I feel safer in the US than I would in China, I feel safer here than in France. Americans aren’t frothing at the mouth to ban Islamic religious clothing while schoolgirls in France have to remove their headscarves.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#86
post #9

Seeing this stated so clearly and prominently in an influential publication brings me hope. I am skeptical though that many people, especially those in the position to make influential choices, especially those who have profit tied up with China, will do anything other than see it and nod.

One possibility is that some economic pressure can be brought to bear by a Biden administration, perhaps in concert with other Western countries. Edited to add: This statement is political, but the genocide against Uyghurs is political too, and if we want to hold our leaders accountable to doing something about it, we need to acknowledge facts. Trump had previously indicated he wasn't interested in letting such matte…

What exactly did Biden do to stand up to China during the Obama/Biden administration (or throughout his political career)? Here’s an incomplete list of things Trump has done:

- He refers to the Wuhan Virus as the China/Chinese Virus (CCP is trying very hard from distancing themselves from responsibility; they won’t even let us into Wuhan to investigate).

- He started a trade war with China, which has forced companies to move their manufacturing to Vietnam, India, Mexico, Taiwan, etc. (Biden admittedly said he would end Trump’s China tariffs, but the many companies that already left are unlikely to return), and even high end tech such as the iPhone is starting to get assembled outside China as well.

- He was the first US President to speak directly with Taiwan's President since 1979.

- He made the largest arms sale to Taiwan in the past few decades.

- The Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act was signed under his administration.

- The TAIPEI Act was signed under his administration.

- Meng Wanzhou was arrested under his administration (which dragged Canada into it because China decided to arbitrarily arrest Canadian citizens).

- China Mobile was blocked from offering services in the US, citing national security risks.

- Huawei was blocked from using Android and chips with US tech (which will effectively kill their mobiles once their stock runs out).

- Huawei was blocked from building 5G networks (USA paid other nations to block them as well).

- Hong Kong’s special status was revoked.

- Universal Postal Union agreed to let countries raise postal rates after Trump threatened to leave - this means you’ll no longer be able to buy cheap junk from Aliexpress (and resellers like Wish) at no shipping cost (the receiving country was previously forced to deliver the products for free, even if you brought some toy for 10 cents).

- Trump is pushing for WTO to drop China’s developing country status.

- TikTok and WeChat (likely with more to come) would’ve been blocked by now if it wasn’t for judges temporarily blocking the bans.

China’s GDP growth in 2019 was also the lowest it’s been since 1990, and 2020 will be even lower. And China’s reputation around the world is at an all-time low (because all over the world then everyone is discussing everything Trump says, and he often attack China).

Also, China’s behavior is nothing new. The only thing that’s new is the fact that we finally have a president that for whatever reasons decided to turn them into his enemy. If EU and the rest of the world had any interest in standing up to China then they could implement their own tariffs, give 5G contracts to their own nation’s companies, etc. But they, just like the Obama/Biden administration, have no interest in doing so.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#87

It's incredibly sad that the world is not doing anything about it. Even if half of the things they say are true - putting anyone in camps for sporting a beard or praying in public, forced prison labour, physical torture, separating new borns and kids from parents in camp, sending kids to brainwashing schools, sexual abuse, organ harvesting etc - it's enough to make anyone feel disgusted at this state of affairs. But…

"...separating new borns and kids from parents in camp, sending kids to brainwashing schools, sexual abuse..." So nothing like those concentration camps the US is running for refugees/"illegal migrants", then.

There are a number of problems with your comparison, but the most fundamental is that the Uyghurs are being persecuted as citizens by their own government.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#88
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants, where they reeducate you to follow a tyrannical political system? Are they tracked through a social credit system where you can't get a train out of your town if it's bad? Where journalists repeteadly disappear? Where a treaty with the UK is ripped up and a city is invaded? Yeah. Accurate.

Well, the US does have the concentration camps at the border where forced surgeries and sterilizations are being performed.

And the entire prison system.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#89
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the US really much better than China? We do similar to black, Native American, and immigrant people. I'm not sure I want either winning in their current state.

The US has concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants, where they reeducate you to follow a tyrannical political system? Are they tracked through a social credit system where you can't get a train out of your town if it's bad? Where journalists repeteadly disappear? Where a treaty with the UK is ripped up and a city is invaded? Yeah. Accurate.

When is it called a "prison" and when is it called a "concentration camp"?

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#90

A utilitarian perspective judges morality based on total improvements in human wellbeing. From that perspective, is it appropriate to say that the Chinese government is the best government of all time? The sheer numbers of people who are improving is somewhat mind boggling. Yet, they make moral tradeoffs. We all make moral tradeoffs. I think it is important to keep their moral tradeoffs in context, lest we risk hypoc…

Suggested reading: "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" by Ursula K. Le Guin. It's a short read.
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