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The Stages of Insomnia

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Re: The Stages of Insomnia

#61

Post by raducu »

ineedasername wrote: post #34

This is why I listen to audiobooks when trying to fall asleep. If I can't fall asleep, I'd rather someone read me a bedtime story than have my own thoughts bouncing around the inside of my head all night.

I loved listening to Isaac Arthur's youtube videos, and it helps a lot in falling asleep(then I discovered low dosage melatonin).

His voice is so calming and re-assuring and the background music also helps.

The O'Neill cylinders series never failed to make me sleep -- I could imagine myself living in such a neat space, floating in the middle of such a cylinder, producing large amounts of food, the world's problems far away, and boom, I'm asleep.

I think I used to fall asleep like this when I was kid imagining I was travelling in captain Nemo's submarine.

Re: The Stages of Insomnia

#62

Post by raducu »

ineedasername wrote: post #35
neurobashing wrote: post #24

I've been using something called Intermezzo, which is basically 'baby Ambien'. It's a crazy mild dose, sublingual so you don't need to even get up and swallow a pill. Knocks you out for maybe 4 hours on a good day. The idea is to knock you out just enough to get you into a sleeping habit on your own, not sedate you into oblivion. It works OK, I guess, but every now and then I power through it and end up having not so…

It actually is literally Ambien, or at least the identical active ingredient, just at a lower dose. Also taking it sublingually gives it a more rapid onset of action. Ambien never did much for me, but I'd be curious if the sublingual delivery worked better.

I love zolpidem too much, that's why I don't use it.

The best functional case for zolpidem/ambien that I've found is to first fall asleep with melatonin, and if I waked up before 4 AM, I'd take 5mg of zolpidem and be back to sleep in 30 minutes.

However, if I take 10mg of zolpidem and don't immediately go to sleep, I start hallucinating and I quite like it: first colors go away and the fonts seem to lose texture/wash out, then the sweetest audio hallucinations start that narrate what I'm reading, embellish the story or just thin, otherworldly voices that talk to themselves.

Re: The Stages of Insomnia

#63

Post by bookofjoe »

082349872349872 wrote: post #46
aaronination wrote: post #14

tip from a mild hypochondriac: never search WebMD, regardless of what time of day (or night) it is

I've heard that one of the side effects of going to med school is constantly becoming aware of symptoms of whatever rare condition one may be studying at the time.

Spot-on. In my second year of med school (1971) half the day was spent in pathology lecture/lab. I developed swelling in my neck lymph nodes and went to student health. In the waiting room I reviewed my life to that point, knowing without any doubt that I had Hodgkin's lymphoma. The doctor took my history, examined me, and ordered a Monospot test. It was positive. I started my second life that day.

Re: The Stages of Insomnia

#64

Post by raducu »

mckirk wrote: post #60
dimeatree wrote: post #22

As with others I have been suffering from frequent attacks of insomnia over my life, while anecdotal I have found my stack that has been working for me for the past 4 months. - Supplement L-Tryptophan - 350 mg Magnesium Carbonate before bed - 3 mg melatonin (bioavailability is claimed to be between 10~15% - was on 10 mg but I found I was waking up too frequently) - 10 minute meditation with calm app - Timed air con.…

It might be worth it to experiment with a lower dose of Melatonin -- 3mg is still way above the .3-1mg dose usually seen as 'most effective'. (See https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-th... )

I used to take 3mg melatonin -- this used to work for a day or two, but then it stopped working.

I switched to 300mcg or 450mcg and it just keeps working, no tolerance whatsoever (actually, after 4-5 days of getting into a sleeping routine with melatonin, I find I no longer need it and I can just fall asleep on my own).

300mcg means I don't notice the melatonin working, I just fall asleep.

450mcg of melatonin -- I actually feel it kicking in like I'm a child wanting to stay and watch the movie, but I just can't stay awake.

Re: The Stages of Insomnia

#65

Post by teekert »

I notice that people with sleep problems usually really want to fall asleep and focus on that. Of course they do. I however usually go along a list like this:

- This bed feels good

- So nice to be not standing or sitting, my feet are even tingling a bit

- This bed really feels nice, I don't want to fall asleep, I want to enjoy this feeling just a bit longer...

- Maybe there is something nice to think about while enjoying this feeling of just lying in this nice clean bed with a perfect temperature...

- ... zzz

Maybe I'm just lucky I slipped into a nice mental routine by accident.

To clear the mind, I recommend just the free intro sessions of headspace (and possibly more), sometimes I do the "thoughts are clouds and I want a blue sky" -trick when the focus on the bed doesn't seem to work.

Re: The Stages of Insomnia

#66

Post by teekert »

raducu wrote: post #61
ineedasername wrote: post #34

This is why I listen to audiobooks when trying to fall asleep. If I can't fall asleep, I'd rather someone read me a bedtime story than have my own thoughts bouncing around the inside of my head all night.

I loved listening to Isaac Arthur's youtube videos, and it helps a lot in falling asleep(then I discovered low dosage melatonin). His voice is so calming and re-assuring and the background music also helps. The O'Neill cylinders series never failed to make me sleep -- I could imagine myself living in such a neat space, floating in the middle of such a cylinder, producing large amounts of food, the world's problems fa…

I love that guy's voice. But usually I'm too interested to fall asleep, maybe not when I listen for the second time :)

Re: The Stages of Insomnia

#67

Post by russellbeattie »

anm89 wrote: post #49

I've started to listen to hours long super dry economics podcasts every night and it works better than anything I've ever done to knock me out and as a side effect I've learned a ton. The problem is it usually also eventually wakes me back up but I usually am able to quickly fall back to sleep.

Tolkien's Silmarillion using Audible with a 15 minute sleep timer.

Works like a charm. I'm usually asleep so fast I have to start back a chapter. Honestly, I still don't really have any clue what the book is about. Ancient trees and elves I assume.

(For the pedantic, that's a joke. About the book, not its effect on my sleep.)

Re: The Stages of Insomnia

#68

Post by animal531 »

teekert wrote: post #65

I notice that people with sleep problems usually really want to fall asleep and focus on that. Of course they do. I however usually go along a list like this: - This bed feels good - So nice to be not standing or sitting, my feet are even tingling a bit - This bed really feels nice, I don't want to fall asleep, I want to enjoy this feeling just a bit longer... - Maybe there is something nice to think about while enjo…

I think the mistake good sleepers (of which I'm one) often make, is that they think it's just a case of not doing something correctly.

Instead the approach should be along the lines of how we think of depression, where your brain either naturally or through some other phenomenon fails to follow the correct "natural" steps. Training definitely helps, but there are still many that struggle while doing that correctly.

I myself lie down on my right-hand side for 30 seconds to a few minutes, thinking about whatever I want. Then I turn onto my left side and I just go to sleep.

Re: The Stages of Insomnia

#69

Post by dimeatree »

mckirk wrote: post #60
dimeatree wrote: post #22

As with others I have been suffering from frequent attacks of insomnia over my life, while anecdotal I have found my stack that has been working for me for the past 4 months. - Supplement L-Tryptophan - 350 mg Magnesium Carbonate before bed - 3 mg melatonin (bioavailability is claimed to be between 10~15% - was on 10 mg but I found I was waking up too frequently) - 10 minute meditation with calm app - Timed air con.…

It might be worth it to experiment with a lower dose of Melatonin -- 3mg is still way above the .3-1mg dose usually seen as 'most effective'. (See https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-th... )

The reason I go 3 mg is because of the bioavailability https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10883420/ I find it is working perfectly for me at the moment

Re: The Stages of Insomnia

#70

Post by teekert »

animal531 wrote: post #68
teekert wrote: post #65

I notice that people with sleep problems usually really want to fall asleep and focus on that. Of course they do. I however usually go along a list like this: - This bed feels good - So nice to be not standing or sitting, my feet are even tingling a bit - This bed really feels nice, I don't want to fall asleep, I want to enjoy this feeling just a bit longer... - Maybe there is something nice to think about while enjo…

I think the mistake good sleepers (of which I'm one) often make, is that they think it's just a case of not doing something correctly. Instead the approach should be along the lines of how we think of depression, where your brain either naturally or through some other phenomenon fails to follow the correct "natural" steps. Training definitely helps, but there are still many that struggle while doing that correctly. I…

Yeah that is very probably true. I saw this up close with friends that had a baby that was very easy on them... and then they had a second kid which they confidently treated exactly the same... and it turns out to be a relationship wrecker ;)
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