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YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

reuters.com

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Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#311

Post by SifJar »

hef19898 wrote: post #144
SifJar wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You assume that the WHO and others have to be right all the time everytime. If information is going to be censored based on what they say, they do have to be right all the time. And the point is, they aren't right all the time.

I have a hard time believing they would recommend removing content they aren't sure about. By the way, Youtube has been banning pornography basically since day one. No outcry about that. Counterpoint, would you accept removing content about abortion and gay marriage rights? If the answer is yes, it indicates that it is not free speech you are worried about.

I never said I was worried about free speech.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#312

Post by hallihax »

owlbynight wrote: post #174

I'll preface this by stating that I hate the idea of censorship and I always have. However, were I to happen across someone motionless on the floor with a needle in their arm, I would give them NARCAN instead of a ride to a rehab center. I'm from the United States. Social media is currently poisoning our country to a degree that I think it may be too late to try and draw out the fight for free speech by using free sp…

I think those fears are entirely understandable - but this is the system working as intended. The problem is not that social media is allowed to do what it does (i.e. give everyone a platform); the problem is that capital has warped the public realm such that a handful of gigantic social media corporations have captured a substantial proportion of the world's attention.

The solution is, imo, to break those corporations up - to ensure competition and to break open these walled gardens which allow nonsense to thrive.

I would seriously hazard against any attempt to restrict individual freedoms regarding free speech. The US, for all its problems - is significantly better than many countries on earth in terms of the ability for any random citizen to say what they like without fear of retribution. Granting politicians and mega-corporations the right and ability to effectively negate entire sets of views and opinions will only ultimately benefit the worst people on earth.

It's a tricky problem but to my mind the issue is one of forcing capitalism to fulfil its promise; competition is the key to preventing tyranny in a capitalist system.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#313

Post by keiferski »

owlbynight wrote: post #303
keiferski wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it will occur naturally over the next few decades. Each misstep that Big Tech / Big Media makes chips off a tiny sliver of their edifice. Over time this will splinter into a thousand pieces, and some attempt to unify information across them will be invented and adopted. It’s easy to forget that the modern Internet itself is only about thirty years old. We’re still at the very, very early stages.

I was on the early Internet. I miss it greatly, but also, it was the wild west, which was awesome when I was essentially living in the woods secluded from the outside world. The freedom was intoxicating. It ended up shaping my entire life. I've watched the Internet grow and evolve into what it is and spent the majority of my free time participating in it from 1993 until today and probably until I die. The thing is, t…

I think it’s just a natural part of the technology adoption process.

Only early adopters use it > widespread usage > simplified, centralized solutions eat the usage market (FB, etc.) > the normal people learn how to be technical users, at least enough to go independent > decentralization takes hold. We’re now in between the last two steps.

Compare it to something like reading and writing or paper. Roughly the same process happened.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#314

Post by pritovido »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #224
owlbynight wrote: post #174

I'll preface this by stating that I hate the idea of censorship and I always have. However, were I to happen across someone motionless on the floor with a needle in their arm, I would give them NARCAN instead of a ride to a rehab center. I'm from the United States. Social media is currently poisoning our country to a degree that I think it may be too late to try and draw out the fight for free speech by using free sp…

> ...what YouTube is doing here is a slippery slope and it's scary... BTW, "slippery slope" was intended to be an example of fallacious thinking. Before it became a popular term, it was intended as a criticism of arguments of the form, "A will lead to B will lead to C, so A is bad." I'm not bringing this up (just) to be pedantic; the overwhelming evidence to date is that it is extraordinarily difficult to get any of…

No, a slippery slope is just that: A slippery slope.

A slippery slope is a inclined surface, a place in space that once you are into, makes you transition very fast to a worse state, like your head hitting the floor at great velocity.

That is you can start well, in a good state, and transition to a much worse state over time. Your definition is also valid but not the only one way to interpret it.

It is an expression that has been used in literature for hundreds of years, not just in english. It is a metaphor.

Do you make youtube videos? I do, and I am very conscious of what I say on my videos because I can not say whatever I want.

I can not say words like "Covid"(extremely forbidden) "negro" referring to someone skin color or something the machine will mistake as me talking about people when I am really not.

And it is also getting worse and worse. In the old times you could say whatever you wanted on youtube, you could even post illegal things like films(posters could abuse). Now you can not, and it is going to become worse in the future and it is youtube who abuses.

The Trump and brexit events were extremely important. People did things that the status quo did not want. Before that you had people like Hillary Clinton or Bezos that believed that because they controlled most media, they controlled people as puppets.

They felt very confident that they could advance their globalist program without serious resistance by the people.

After that it became clear that they had to control Internet too. At least the mass media on the Internet that affects most people.

I don't say that as a Trump supporter, I am not even American, but I have eyes. I see media reaction when someone gets killed by police and the media silence when a Trump supporter gets killed by a democrat radical and it is just disgusting how sectarian they are.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#315

Post by garbagetime »

raxxorrax wrote: post #309
garbagetime wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science doesn't work by consensus, anyway.

It actually does. Something is called scientific consensus if a large group of independent! researchers come the same conclusion. A far more common problem science faces are the people that claim to know the truth.

Scientific consensus isn't a factor in the scientific strength of a theory.

But I'm not denying that there is such a thing as a scientific consensus.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#316

Post by throwaway1582 »

theaeolist wrote: post #259
throwaway1582 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If democracy requires free speech to be sacrificed, why do you think keeping democracy is a worthwhile endeavor? Perhaps you should be questioning the validity of universal suffrage. If your mode of government can't withstand fake twitter bots, you should probably just toss it and start over with something else.

Fake Twitter bots are also a form of censorship. Censorship does not work just by imposing silence, but also by overwhelming with noise. Free speech is valuable because it leads to a contest of ideas. If it degenerates into a contest of who has the resources to scream louder the battle for free speech has been lost already.

there seems to be a rather simple fix for this: a bloom filter for ideas.

place this within the flow of information or at the intake of the government, take your pick. but it's obvious to me that democracy/universal suffrage gives incentive to actors (both foreign and domestic) to wage a mind-control war against the population.

if people are legitimately willing to question something as foundational as free speech, they should really consider the other parts of the foundation too.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#317

Post by hef19898 »

raxxorrax wrote: post #296
hef19898 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube is part of a public, non-state-controlled entity. As such, it has close to nothing to do with democracy as a form of government. It does have a social impact, which then influences democracy. As such, Youtube, and FB and Twitter and all the others, do have a responsibility for all of us. And they have to be held accountable for their actions, up to know they just raked in the profits and gave shit about anyth…

Holding them accountable by giving them more power sounds like a losing strategy. Because that is exactly what the "pressure on big tech" has done in favor of classical publishers that thank them by favoring their censorious actions in articles.

They already have all the power you can think of when it comes to the content on their platforms. They just use it differently now.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#318

Post by gitrog »

nickff wrote: post #245
gitrog wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see how your Double Jeopardy example demonstrates 'ranking' of rights. I was thinking, for example, one person's right to freedom from violent crime over another person's right to not be put on trail again for the same crime. > I would say that (2) and (3) go further than one. You could say that they are subsets of (1). Agreed.

Well, I think the non-aggression principle applies without reference to the 'justice system'. That is to say, whether or not someone has committed a crime, for which they may or may not have been convicted, they have a moral obligation not to perpetrate violence against you. Post-hoc detention or punishment does not 'correct' or remediate aggression, and I am not aware of any right to prevent hypothetical aggression.

I guess we're going off on a tangent here, but then I'm not sure what a person's right to freedom from violent crime actually provides them, if not a systematic process by which they can get justice.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#319

Post by raxxorrax »

pjc50 wrote: post #299
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate it as well, and if I could come up with some new way of advancing our species aside from free speech I would. I cannot and cannot see how such a thing would ever be possible. Here's a bit of sunshine: the human species has not changed in thousands of years. We're still the same hairless monkeys we were back when people were thinking up all kinds of cool shit. Knowing this, it follows that 10% or so of the popu…

> we've solved over and over again the problem of what it takes to have a peaceful and progressive society ... have we? Much of the 20th century was spent at war, with a death total somewhere in the region of a hundred million. As were most of the previous centuries. There have been isolated pockets where one might have a lifetime of stability over a wide area, but few of those were also "free". > The problem we have…

You suggest that not removing wrong Youtube comments "degenerates" to the situation in Myanmar. This depiction was presented by publishers that want to get a handle on Youtube because of changing business models and is not substantiated by facts. Even Putin would do better, although that story was a lie and an election strategy.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#320

Post by nl »

concordDance wrote: post #301
owlbynight wrote: post #174

I'll preface this by stating that I hate the idea of censorship and I always have. However, were I to happen across someone motionless on the floor with a needle in their arm, I would give them NARCAN instead of a ride to a rehab center. I'm from the United States. Social media is currently poisoning our country to a degree that I think it may be too late to try and draw out the fight for free speech by using free sp…

> Social media is currently poisoning our country to a degree that I think it may be too late to try and draw out the fight for free speech by using free speech alone. Why do people think this? A few selected anecdotes and some tiny numbers (1000 people liking a post talking about covid causing 5G? Tiny numbers)? What is the end-game that is so feared? If the people as a whole can't be trusted to make sensible decisi…

45% of US adults think vaccines are unsafe.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-06/aoa-4oa06241...

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