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Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

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Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#701
post #361

Crux of the issue is that everyone knows there’s a double standard. Why do they co-ordinate to block this story and not the countless other “unverified” scoops? Because it threatens a protected politician.

What other countless unverified scoops?

One relevant example is the Steele Dossier, which Mother Jones reported on a week before the 2016 election. It was published without permission, and its more sensational claims remain unverified or have since been disproven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steele_dossier#Mother_Jones_st...

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an angle I hadn't even considered, but I'm surprised Twitter didn't. SV social media companies, of all the organizations in the world , should understand the implications of a Streisanding. If they had just left it alone, maybe attached the standard "this might be false" disclaimer, it would likely have passed as yet another partisan thing , but now they've gone and infused it with a bunch of power it didn't h…

The safest bet is it changes nobody's opinion. If you're left leaning, you've drowned out Trump's repeatedly false statements --or become numb to them-- no October surprise will have an effect on you. If you're right leaning, this furthers your perspective that Clinton and Deep State are up to no good. Nobody comes across content like this without an existing world view to inspect it, and the lines have been drawn a…

Right, but this is what makes the situation so dangerous in the U.S. If no one’s mind is changed over events like these, then we’re at a point where there are essentially two citizenries which both see the other side as toxic. We’re slouching towards civil war. Most people don’t want war, but do see the other side as harmful, so we have to try hard to avoid it.

Maybe we’re all looking at it wrong, maybe a civil war increases shareholder value for Facebook? Because the way they went about this is another escalation. Nothing drives engagement like military engagements, right?

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#703
post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democrats’ victory will be built on purple House seats, COVID blowback, and suburban women and seniors getting cold on Trump. That’s not going to last forever. The “demographic destiny” thing is looking increasingly dubious as Trump continues to outperform expectations among Latinos, even after, well, four years of Trump and COVID and everything. Meanwhile, there is no bench of strong moderates behind Biden. Republic…

Nonwhite Democrats are culturally far more conservative than white progressives on every issue except for racial issues. This will come to bite Democrats in a big way probably, as I’m almost sure the republicans will sooner or later nominate a nonwhite candidate (Nikki Haley??) and Democrats won’t get the ‘demographic’ vote they were hoping for.

White progressives have become more liberal on race issues recently as well: https://www.vox.com/2019/3/22/18259865/great-awokening-white...

> In the past five years, white liberals have moved so far to the left on questions of race and racism that they are now, on these issues, to the left of even the typical black voter.

Trump has plumbed the bottom of the non-white vote. The protests rankled many Latinos. In recent YouGov polling, a narrow majority of Latinos rated “the breakdown of law and order” as a “bigger problem” then “systemic racism.”

Meanwhile, Millenial Black voters are twice as likely to have favorable or somewhat favorable views of Trump than older Black voters: https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/ucla-study...

> The data collected from April 2-May 13 by the Democracy Fund + UCLA Nationscape project, an initiative that conducted weekly surveys of thousands of potential voters for nearly a year, found that 29% of percent of black voters ages 30-44 and 21% ages 18-29 have a "very favorable" or "somewhat favorable" view of President Trump. This compares to just 14% of black voters 45-64 and 9% of those 65 and older.

It’s not going to be Mitt Romney’s Republican Party. But Democrats shouldn’t be popping champagne corks assuming that the opposing party will never be in power again.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#704

I think it is crazy that twitter has gone down this path. Being the arbiter of truth makes their job much harder and doesn’t seem to have a big upside. If they have an agenda they want to push the upside might be there but otherwise it’s just a perpetual shitshow.

To whom are they the arbiter of truth? Not to anyone with half a brain I hope. It's a private website and they can do what they like with it, same as you or I. If I go on your blog and post something dumb, you'd probably delete it too.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What I do not get is why some people honestly do believe that an average person needs to be protected from lies by a censor?" I was a Chomsky style free speech ultimatist. Unfortunately, humans aren't rational. Lying is super effective, its effects pernicious. They activate identity and trigger negative partisanship. Simply trying to refute lies only embeds them further. Profiting from the outrage machine (dopamine…

I don't think you are wrong. I would not dare to suggest there are easy answers here. My initial reaction was to attempt to argue that we are not, in fact a democracy, completely derailing the conversation in an attempt simply to 'win' an argument. I am oddly surprised with myself over this. There is no ego here. Nothing to prove. And yet, the need to be right on the internet prevails. This agrees with your note that…

No snark detected.

I chose to reply to you, specifically, because you were discussing ideas and principles, avoiding getting caught up by personalities and the food fight.

I've been obsessing about rhetoric, persuasion, discourse for way too long. I've tried any thing and every thing suggested. Stuff like David Domke and heroesnarrative.org. I've spent 100s of hours working on framing, wordsmithing, resolutions, whitepapers.

Nothing I've tried has made a lasting difference. Most of it was probably counter productive.

Of course there are some obvious things we (society) can do, short of banning falsehoods.

- Add friction to, and sometimes break, feedback loops to thwart the dopamine rush.

- Decouple (unbundle) activities to create opportunities for competition.

- Prohibit self dealing and other conflicts of interest.

- Ban toxic incentives (targeted ads, freemium).

You may note these remedies have some overlap with the adjacent issues of monopolies and privacy.

Of course, no silver bullets. People smarter than me will surely add to this list. (I barely understand the debates about Section 230.) And I'm still find a response to algorithmic newsfeeds.

All of these measures limit, deny, thwart.

But I want to find positive alternatives. Role models for better behavior. In the marketplace for ideas, I want to be selling the best ideas.

--

Have you listened to KEXP 90.3 FM Seattle (kexp.org) lately? In response to COVID-19, they're now doing mass psychiatry, group therapy with their "You are Not Alone" campaign.

I think this might be one antidote to the outrage machine.

It's a synthesis of many aspects and features you'll recognize. And most of the time these kinds of things backfire. Perceived as insincere empathy and saccharin positivity.

But KEXP somehow makes it work. A slow metamorphosis over years. They're now fulfilling a yearning need for connection and community and calmness that, frankly, is mostly missing in media.

One example of their genius: In response to the ridiculous assaults on the USPS, KEXP did the "Support The Post Office" event, encouraging listeners to send their song requests via USPS. Then one morning they played those requests and read the cards.

Not once did KEXP engage in the food fight. They didn't have to. They only said positive things and encouraged positive actions.

KEXP said what they're for, not what they're against.

Of course KEXP is listener funded, and therefore directly incentivized to do positivity and outreach. Versus ad based outrage machines.

(A few years ago, KEXP canceled their weekend morning shows on politics and current events. I had listened for decades and really liked those programs. But the format and strategy practiced by aging hippies, standard public radio fare, was long past being constructive.)

I'm now wondering how the KEXP experiment can be replicated. Done many many times vs scaled larger.

I'm also wondering if this strategy can reconnect people, help reduce our hyper polarization. Stock advice for cult deprogramming is unconditional acceptance, no judgement. Just be glad your friend or family member is back and listen listen listen.

That kinda feels like what KEXP is doing.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#706
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The New York Post is not a serious newspaper; it is a sensationalist tabloid. Sometimes the NYPost will report on real news, but I believe absolutely nothing they report until it is verified by the New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, or other major broadcast outlet with actual journalistic standards.

> New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, or other major broadcast outlet with actual journalistic standards. "Actual journalistic standards" yeah right! They literally carried out a fake news story about Nick Sandmann without any sort of verification. CNN settled 250 million $ lawsuit followed by Washington Post. Other publications are in the line next. They have zero credibility... especially after causing irrep…

They settled the lawsuits but there is no indication it was anything like $250M (more like $25K!). And notably none of the organisations was required to retract or apologize as part of the settlement.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious why you seem so confident in a widespread democratic victory when the republicans did so well in 2016? EDIT: for those unaware, not only did the republican party take control of the House, Senate, and Presidency in 2016. They also made big gains in state elections. In fact, the republican party had a 'trifecta' (house, senate, and executive) in 25/50 states. It was a very significant shift in power: https…

Many polls are showing a Biden win is above 80% probability, the House is solidly Dem, and a possible sweep in the Senate. Make of that what you will. Its a fair point that polls missed in 2016. 2020 has kicked the hornet’s nest (rather, the last four years), voter turnout appears to be higher than previous years, and I’d bet an expensive bottle of bourbon current polls align close to what results will be (with model…

I'll take that bet on the expensive bottle of bourbon.

No one who voted for Trump in 2016 would vote for Biden. A decent chunk of people who voted for Clinton would vote for Trump.

2020 events showed the true colors of political ideology and think it's safe to say the left lost just about all of their center-left leaning base. (see Portland, Cuomo, un-constitutional shutdowns, hyper-sensitive political correctness, etc as examples)

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#708

This was a shockingly dumb move. Whether or not you think these actions were politically motivated or made in good faith, it just poured liquid oxygen on the "reform section 230" fire you're seeing from both sides of the aisle - one using the censorship reason, the other using the disinformation reason. There's no way you don't block a newspaper, and the press secretary, and prevent anyone from even private messaging…

>There's no way you don't block a newspaper, and the press secretary, and prevent anyone from even private messaging the link to each other, and blocking people who share screenshots, and not invite serious scrutiny or action.

If Biden becomes president, his 2018 quid-pro-quo admission to fire a Ukranian prosecutor is all the assurance social media companies need that Biden would likely ignore calls for reform to section 230. At worst, its a bold gamble social media companies appear to be taking in the face of the Trump administrations almost certain intent to reform.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#709
post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously HN readers are going to want to see the emails and decide for themselves. There's zero implication of authenticity (or inauthenticity for that matter). The only thing we care about at our end is having an accurate article (and headline) for the story. Politics isn't completely off-topic for HN—there's overlap and it depends. There's lots of previous explanation about that at https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRang…

> see the emails and decide for themselves Using information or skills uniquely possessed by HN readers?

like understanding metadata? we have a bigger problem if hn readers can't do that

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two possibilities: Either it's really a hack or it's a felonious attempt to manipulate an election. Or it's both -- a hack of personal private photos and also fake emails feloniously manipulating an election. Either way, a ban is appropriate. Saying "if it's true, it's ban able for X" without out bothering to say that obviously it's bannable if it's false, isn't saying it's true. How could Twitter even know…

So Wikileaks should have been suppressed?

Why is there only a single lone article about Russia in WL? Only Peter Systems and SORM.... compared to hundreds of US leaks?

Misinformation and misdirection aren't good for humanity

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