Just go google "private blog networks" (pbn) or "link farm".
I found black-hat content marketers: sockpuppet bloggers, fake Reddit/HN accts
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Re: I found black-hat content marketers: sockpuppet bloggers, fake Reddit/HN accts
#32> I didn't know that black-hat content marketing existed seriously? I think I first saw it in 1996. Sock puppets are nothing new or innovative as a general concept.
Sock puppets have existed for a long time, but turning it into a contract service for clients, selling it to well-known startups, and scaling it up this big is not something I've seen before.
(also, hi from NANOG and the SIX ages ago!)
Re: I found black-hat content marketers: sockpuppet bloggers, fake Reddit/HN accts
#33I don't endorse this behavior at all but can it really be said to be black-hat? imho seems more gray to me. From what I understand, content _is_ being generated and there are attempts to boost the SEO, so they're providing a service and it's not outright theft. At worst it just sounds like poor practice and gaming the system. They're not acting maliciously, illegally, and/or destructively, which is how I've always de…
If this isn't black-hat, what is? Specifically, an author not disclosing an affiliation or payment, fake accounts promoting it, and fake accounts commenting on those promotions. In the continuum between white and black, what's left on the black side? :-)
Re: I found black-hat content marketers: sockpuppet bloggers, fake Reddit/HN accts
#34I think the GAN (prob actually not a GAN) that's months old on HN and posts rubbish and gets replys from mods and people and gets lots of karma is much more interesting Imagine what it'd be like if AI wasn't all overhyped garage. Downvoted I guess. Oh, AI that can group think. That would be evil.
Re: I found black-hat content marketers: sockpuppet bloggers, fake Reddit/HN accts
#35Is this actually news to people? This has been happening for decades. The purpose is largely for SEO / sometimes for actual traffic. Just go google "private blog networks" (pbn) or "link farm".
Good question. The thing that was news to me is that it's happening on very large blogs, not random sites and that it's being sold to and used by well-known startups. Like you, I expect sockpuppet accounts and random linkbuilding garbage, just not at this scale or with this much distribution.
Re: I found black-hat content marketers: sockpuppet bloggers, fake Reddit/HN accts
#36Re: I found black-hat content marketers: sockpuppet bloggers, fake Reddit/HN accts
#37> I didn't know that black-hat content marketing existed seriously? I think I first saw it in 1996. Sock puppets are nothing new or innovative as a general concept.
> seriously? I think I first saw it in 1996. Sock puppets are nothing new or innovative as a general concept. Sock puppets have existed for a long time, but turning it into a contract service for clients, selling it to well-known startups, and scaling it up this big is not something I've seen before. (also, hi from NANOG and the SIX ages ago!)
On a large scale there is a big overlap between the general concept of operating a low-cost call center in a developing nation that speaks English (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh).
This has been taken to its most blackhat extent by the people who are running call centers for the fake "fix your PC it has viruses now, we are Microsoft support" scammers. Or even worse the fake Internal Revenue Service / Canada Revenue Agency type scam call centers.
The operating costs in monthly salary per human, and office rental, basic desktop PCs, electricity, telecom services are all very similar between the different grey/black hat business models. If you have humans talking to other humans by voice, you've got a bunch of $20 headsets with boom mics plugged directly into the desktop PCs, some SIP softphones, an asterisk setup, and a router/VPN connection back to a bunch of grey market SIP trunks. The voice part is obviously not necessary if it's just click workers.
Assume for a moment that your office and computer equipment is a sunk cost, and you've got a room full of dudes working a 6-day work week and paying them each $250 a month. They each need to bring in revenue of something like $10-11 per day to break even on the payroll. Obviously this "business model" is somewhat dependent upon finding a place that has a sufficiently large pool of low-wage, but moderately educated people who can drive desktop PCs, and a place to put your call center type environment in low cost commercial real estate. Thus my mention in another comment about Bangladesh.
Some organizations went into the gold farming market to hire people at the equivalent of $250 USD/month to repetitively perform tasks in MMORPG games and then sell the virtual currency/assets to people in the US/Canada/Europe with extra money to spend.
After that, they quickly discovered that it could be more lucrative to have one person run 30 reddit accounts (or twitter, whatever) and get paid to upvote stuff to the front page.
If one business model fails, you take the same office environment and temporarily convert the workers to doing another task. Or you have a mixture of tasks going on simultaneously for the click workers.
People with difficult accents or less than optimal phone skills, that cannot successfully scam a person and then transfer them to the higher-ranked "closer", are positioned for these click worker tasks.
Re: I found black-hat content marketers: sockpuppet bloggers, fake Reddit/HN accts
#38The Twitter thread has a lot more. There's a person or firm who is doing black-hat content marketing at scale. They either approach freelance bloggers to write articles about their clients (to be submitted to Medium-hosted and similar blogs as if written by unaffiliated users), or create Medium profiles for fake names and write the posts themselves. Posts have appeared in Better Programming, DEV.to, FAUN, freeCodeCam…
No!!! You don't say!
Re: I found black-hat content marketers: sockpuppet bloggers, fake Reddit/HN accts
#39Is this actually news to people? This has been happening for decades. The purpose is largely for SEO / sometimes for actual traffic. Just go google "private blog networks" (pbn) or "link farm".
> Is this actually news to people? Good question. The thing that was news to me is that it's happening on very large blogs, not random sites and that it's being sold to and used by well-known startups. Like you, I expect sockpuppet accounts and random linkbuilding garbage, just not at this scale or with this much distribution.
Re: I found black-hat content marketers: sockpuppet bloggers, fake Reddit/HN accts
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
It may fall under the FTC’s regulations on influencer endorsements: https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/attachments/press-re...
I thought this was mostly unenforced or unenforceable in cases like this -- where it would be really hard to prove that someone took a payment. I'll keep digging. Thanks! One more thing -- this isn't an explicit endorsement. It's content marketing. I rather thought that made even the FTC rules hard to apply. Also: "The Guides are not regulations, and so there are no civil penalties associated with them. But if advert…