The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini • Hacker News Board

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#351

Post by babesh » Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 11:51 PM UTC

oflannabhra wrote: post #206

tqkxzugoaupvwqr wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removing the charger under the guise of helping the environment was disingenuous by Apple. They said they shipped a billion chargers so they’ll just include the cable from now on. Well, the cable is Lightning-to-USB-C, not USB-A. Apple shipped nearly zero USB-C chargers and many people getting an iPhone will have to buy one. In the end, Apple removed the charger but didn’t lower the price, and people still have to bu…

True, but there's nothing from preventing you from using your old phones USB-A to lightning cord and brick to charge your new phone. That is what I plan on doing.

The problem is that the cables have a weakness that causes them to eventually break. Getting a new brick and cable to go with the phone solves that issue at least for a few years. With the new cable being USB-C, you can’t use the old brick with the new cable. The brick was also useful when traveling to places without USB-C ports or even other USB ports.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#352

Post by greedo » Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 11:53 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #190

greedo wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Lightning cable is Lightning->USB-C. So all the old USB-A chargers won't work... Which means that people will through this cable in a drawer and use their old one (if it still works properly). One reason I loved getting a new iPhone was getting a new cable, charger and headphones since my old one's were usually beat after 2-3 years. So this is a huge pain in the wallet, as well as inconvenient.

> The Lightning cable is Lightning->USB-C Nonsense. I have tons of USB-A to Lightning cables. They cost dollars. > since my old one's were usually beat after 2-3 years What on earth are you doing to them?

Did you watch the presentation? The new cables (if you buy an iPhone today) are Lightning at one end, and USB-C at the other. So you can't use them with your old adapter. This means a new iPhone buyer is getting a phone with no charger, and any of the old chargers they have won't be usable with this cable.

And cheap USB-A Lightning cables are crap. Even expensive ones from Anker are crap. Apple made ones are okay, but have poor strain relief, so eventually they crap out too.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#353

Post by bleepblorp » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 12:07 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #252

bleepblorp wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should they have dropped the price on the phone? Because price gouging is immoral. If Apple was on the margins financially and needed to raise prices to stay in business, that would be one thing. Apple, however, is replete with surplus assets and is taking hard-earned money from other peoples' pockets simply because it can. There are an awful lot of far more economically productive uses the proceeds of Apple's…

Apple isn't a charity. Do you take a pay cut when you have money left at the end of the month? Why not? Why not give that back to your employers?

That's not an equivalent issue. Employees, like consumers, need their money much more than employers (or more to the point, senior managers and shareholders) need it.

Wealth and income both have a decreasing marginal utility.[0]

[0] https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/12309/concepts/diminishin...

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#354

Post by e_tm_ » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 12:26 AM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #173

e_tm_ wrote: post #21

This isn't cool, but.... Every slide that has a price has the keyword "From" right before it.

Usually "From" has meant "it might cost more if you put in more storage", not "if you buy don't buy this through a carrier it costs $30 more".

For sure.

I guess the new definition is "somebody can technically purchase for this price, even if it is 1 out of a million, and requires a blood sacrifice".

I am not a marketer, but I assume that is the definition they are using.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#355

Post by dkonofalski » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 1:05 AM UTC

epanchin wrote: post #158

stetrain wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"decided to not pass that savings onto the customer" Do you have access to the BOM? Sure it was likely a cost-savings measure, but it may have been to combat rising prices elsewhere. It's a two-sided equation and we can't see the whole thing. If Apple did want to be environmentally friendly though I would think offering a reasonably priced multi-device (4-ports?) charger would be more effective than just selling a si…

If they wanted to be enviroment they would have switched to USB-C. I'm personally happy about the lack of charger, all my Apple ones go into a drawer never to be seen again.

How is that environmentally friendly, though? Switching to USB-C now turns all the existing Lightning accessories into more e-waste and all the existing Lightning cables into e-waste. Given that wired charging will likely go away in a few years, it doesn't really make sense to change everything to USB-C now just to make it go away altogether in either an environmental sense or a business sense.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#356

Post by dkonofalski » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 1:08 AM UTC

__d wrote: post #339

sam_bristow wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-C cables are less durable than lightning cables. But the ports are more durable than lightning ports. I'd say that's a good compromise given the relative costs of a phone vs a cable. That said, my Nokia 6.1 had the USB-C port fail in just a couple of years. Apple's design for the USB-C ports on their laptops looks extra nice and durable though. They are machined out of the aluminium of the case itself.

My partner's 12" MacBook has a (single) USB-C port, which has become increasingly loose over time. To the point where she has to listen for the distinctive sound it makes when charging when she plugs it in, and wiggle the connector until it connects properly. So despite the apparent solidity of the machined shell, something in the system wears over time.

I'm not trying to suggest that this is the answer/reason for your particular anecdote but it could have nothing to do with USB-C itself and simply be unnecessary physical wear put on by the user. I think you can find anecdotes in either direction for this particular case.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#357

Post by dkonofalski » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 1:09 AM UTC

stouset wrote: post #348

Shivetya wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in the camp that they should just hand them out to anyone who has purchased a new phone. They cannot cost that much and this way new customers are not out an additional cost. This is easily accomplished at the store and a good retailer could run with the idea to differentiate themselves for a low cost

This is one of the few criticisms I can get behind. I think Apple could deflect a lot of criticism here for a comparatively small amount of money by simply offering a standalone brick as a free accessory to anyone purchasing a new phone.

But wouldn't everyone just take one then? And wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of minimizing the e-waste?

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#358

Post by thisarticle » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 1:13 AM UTC

Look, if $30 makes the difference in purchasing a $1000 phone, maybe it’s time to re-evaluate your financial picture. If this is seriously the biggest thing people have to gripe about with the announcement then I’d say Apple did well.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#359

Post by dkonofalski » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 1:13 AM UTC

babesh wrote: post #351

oflannabhra wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but there's nothing from preventing you from using your old phones USB-A to lightning cord and brick to charge your new phone. That is what I plan on doing.

The problem is that the cables have a weakness that causes them to eventually break. Getting a new brick and cable to go with the phone solves that issue at least for a few years. With the new cable being USB-C, you can’t use the old brick with the new cable. The brick was also useful when traveling to places without USB-C ports or even other USB ports.

But that's the whole point. You'll buy one at that point because you need it. Giving people the brick whether they need it or not is what makes it wasteful and costly for all involved.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#360

Post by dkonofalski » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 1:16 AM UTC

kevinpet wrote: post #169

chrisseaton wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet Come on.... Everyone (to some approximation) has a charger already! Why knock the people trying to reduce waste?

I have an old SE. I'm considering upgrading to the new SE. The SE (which has already been out for months at $399) used to come with earpods and now doesn't, at the same price.

But the phones are clearly not the same and we have no idea what the real cost is yet. Just building a device this year, where transportation and shipping from country to country has been excessive, could account for that difference in cost minus the earpods.