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The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

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Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#301

Post by gnicholas »

chrisseaton wrote: post #288
gnicholas wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to repeatedly insinuate in your comments to me and others that the price to manufacture could have gone up over time, you should have some theory to back it. It's not my job to disprove pure speculation, especially when it goes against the general and well-known trend that manufacturing yields go up over time, and this drives down cost.

> you should have some theory to back it You're the one claiming the contrary and accusing them of something based on it - you prove it if you want to accuse them of something!

They have removed two items from the box. That saves them money. The price is the same. That means that they are saving money, unless there is evidence that the cost of the phone manufacturing went up. You have provided zero evidence of this, even in the face of the well-known trend that manufacturing costs go down over time. Good day, friend. You can continue having this argument with other folks on the thread, but I'm signing off here.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#302

Post by vmception »

marketingPro wrote: post #275
duxup wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel weird about sort of defending this practice but ... I don't have a problem with it. There it is, the phone without a charger is the offer, you know it, I know it. We all know the price and the product. There's no mystery here. This stuff about if it was a hard decision or not, I don't see how it matters. Folks who take this kinda of marketing to heart, I just don't get it.

To anyone who isn't stuck in the Apple ecosystem it appears that Apple is squeezing their customers yet again. And a response defending them is no surprise. The human brain will rationalize anything.

what you might not notice is that we all have the freakin chargers, too many of them!

even if you take just your malfunctioning device, by itself, to the store for repair, they give you a whole new phone with another set of headphones and chargers

maaaaybe there is a point about “and they raised the price anyway!” Yes, Apple has large margins, yes, new consumer goods cost more than they previously did. It is weird to reserve this argument for Apple or smartphones. I would pay more than +$30 for a Lidar sensor

Thanks

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#303

Post by soperj »

jiggawatts wrote: post #280
jacurtis wrote: post #122

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30. I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for remov…

There is another aspect to this people might be missing: If every phone that is shipped must come with a charger, but half the chargers are never used, then the marginal value gained by customers from the manufacturer improving that product is also halved. So why bother making the charger good? Half the people won't use it! They'd have to pay for something that's not a direct benefit to the product they do want to bu…

>This is the point of standards

Except apple doesn't use standards. They use their own proprietary ports.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#304

Post by chrisseaton »

TwoBit wrote: post #237
chrisseaton wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Lightning cable is Lightning->USB-C Nonsense. I have tons of USB-A to Lightning cables. They cost dollars. > since my old one's were usually beat after 2-3 years What on earth are you doing to them?

Apple branded cables are terrible quality. It's due to something about trying to be different..

They seem top quality to me - what am I missing?

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#305

Post by thamer »

jacurtis wrote: post #122

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30. I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for remov…

But… you have no idea what the reasons were and how much each argument weighed.

The CEO of Anker (they make chargers and charging accessories) estimates that 1 year of smartphone sales leads to 300,000 tons of e-waste from charging bricks. This matters way more than speculations about shipping costs. Have you seen Apple packaging? Nothing about it is light or cheap.

I really hope other companies follow suit.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#306

Post by wmf »

acomjean wrote: post #286
duxup wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel weird about sort of defending this practice but ... I don't have a problem with it. There it is, the phone without a charger is the offer, you know it, I know it. We all know the price and the product. There's no mystery here. This stuff about if it was a hard decision or not, I don't see how it matters. Folks who take this kinda of marketing to heart, I just don't get it.

I kinda don't have a problem with the omissions, but the "marketing spin" seems a little over the top. How standard are these usb-c bricks and are people going to be worried about cooking their phones? (Apple's chargers are of pretty high quality, but it seems weird to plug a phone into a usb c device that can charge a notebook). Also I feel that the headphone ommission to save the environment would be more believabl…

it seems weird to plug a phone into a usb c device that can charge a notebook

I love using the same charger for my laptop, phone, and tablet. When traveling I only have to carry one charger.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#307

Post by mmm_grayons »

soperj wrote: post #303
jiggawatts wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is another aspect to this people might be missing: If every phone that is shipped must come with a charger, but half the chargers are never used, then the marginal value gained by customers from the manufacturer improving that product is also halved. So why bother making the charger good? Half the people won't use it! They'd have to pay for something that's not a direct benefit to the product they do want to bu…

>This is the point of standards Except apple doesn't use standards. They use their own proprietary ports.

In fairness to Apple, they didn't just make other ports for the sake of it. When lightning mini was made, it was objectively better than mini-USB. When magsafe was made, it was objectively better than barrel plugs (and for charging, it's still better than USB-C.) Now that the standards are better, Apple is slowly transitioning to USB-C, which is a standard.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#308

Post by josephg »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #271
dillondoyle wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What % of iphone users already have (multiple) charger bricks? I would intuit a large % of buyers already have multiple which personally I think gives more credit to in Apple's excuse

Dozens of USB-A charger bricks sure. Heck, I've added them to our bedroom wall sockets to save having to have extra things plugged in. USB-C? One for my work MacBook.

So? Just don’t use the included cable.

I’m overflowing with USB-A to lightning cables. Apple bundled USB-A to lightning cables with their wireless trackpad and keyboard even after they dropped USB-A ports on their laptops. And if you don’t have any, they cost like $3 from the supermarket or drug store.

I’m going the other way. I think my phone charger is one of the last USB-A chargers in my house, and it’s days are numbered. I love being able to throw my laptop charger in my bag when I travel and charge all my devices with the same brick.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#309

Post by duxup »

acomjean wrote: post #286
duxup wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel weird about sort of defending this practice but ... I don't have a problem with it. There it is, the phone without a charger is the offer, you know it, I know it. We all know the price and the product. There's no mystery here. This stuff about if it was a hard decision or not, I don't see how it matters. Folks who take this kinda of marketing to heart, I just don't get it.

I kinda don't have a problem with the omissions, but the "marketing spin" seems a little over the top. How standard are these usb-c bricks and are people going to be worried about cooking their phones? (Apple's chargers are of pretty high quality, but it seems weird to plug a phone into a usb c device that can charge a notebook). Also I feel that the headphone ommission to save the environment would be more believabl…

I really haven't had a problem charging an iPhone and all my other devices from a handful of USB bricks. I suppose the charging tech might mean they don't charge at optimal speed, but I've never noticed the difference.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#310

Post by thamer »

mtm7 wrote: post #170
jacurtis wrote: post #122

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30. I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for remov…

It's going to be incredibly frustrating for the average person to buy an almost-$1000 device, use it until it runs out of battery, and realize that a charger is a completely separate purchase. Especially because the included cable is USB-C, so it won't work with most old power bricks. I feel like Steve wouldn't've let this happen... the UX is just so, so bad. It feels incredibly profit-motivated.

The average person who buys a $1,000 phone in 2020 and has no USB charger at home or charging brick from a previous iPhone or laptop or computer or anything to plug in the cable. Sure.

There's probably someone like that, and they can buy a charging brick. The rest of us can do without the 300,000 tons[1] of e-waste per year these amount to.

[1] https://goodelectronics.org/iphone-charger/

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