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The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

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Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#231

Post by hammock »

stetrain wrote: post #145
jacurtis wrote: post #122

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30. I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for remov…

"decided to not pass that savings onto the customer" Do you have access to the BOM? Sure it was likely a cost-savings measure, but it may have been to combat rising prices elsewhere. It's a two-sided equation and we can't see the whole thing. If Apple did want to be environmentally friendly though I would think offering a reasonably priced multi-device (4-ports?) charger would be more effective than just selling a si…

>Do you have access to the BOM? Sure it was likely a cost-savings measure, but it may have been to combat rising prices elsewhere. It's a two-sided equation and we can't see the whole thing.

Unless the cost of a powerbrick went up by $50-60, there are savings that Apple is not passing onto the consumer.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#232

Post by etempleton »

jacurtis wrote: post #122

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30. I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for remov…

I do not buy for a second that environmental concerns were Apple's primary reason for removing the power brick and the lightning headphones from the box, though I think the decision makes sense. The lighting headphones are more of a pain than they are worth and most consumers have enough five watt power bricks floating around if they really need one. From a PR and messaging stand point environmentalism was really the most elegant explanation without diving into market research on consumer behavior and component costs.

The Verizon 5G presentation and the opaque pricing are real head-scratchers.

Why include Verizon at all? They are in last place in the US on 5G deployment and 5G is going to be largely meaningless for most consumers. So to have Verizon out there and then act like 5G is a huge deal says to me that they felt like they did not have enough to talk about with their new phones. It is faster, the cameras are better, they redesigned it, but it is kind of a mashup of the old design and new design, nothing revolutionary. They went hard on 5G because it is all they really have new to talk about. Verizon was needed filler and likely signed some kind of co-marketing deal to be on stage. I would expect a lot of iPhone-centric Verizon commercials over the next year.

And as far as the subsidy, I think it is fine to have carriers subsidize phone costs for their consumers, but $30 is peanuts on a $700+ phone and not worth any confusion or ill will generated by those who thought they were getting an unlocked phone for $699 as advertised.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#233

Post by noizejoy »

zaptrem wrote: post #199
itchyouch wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1Gb is 125MB/s... most SSDs benchmark at around 500MB/s... even with small files, it should be possible? Likely your wifi, nic, or switching infra and even cables would be where I’d look other than your SSD.

At least when it comes to downloading/updating large games, they can get CPU bound when decompression and updates happen.

... and potentially anti-virus software also slows things down on the way to a file becoming fully usable

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#234

Post by mtm7 »

notJim wrote: post #210
mtm7 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's going to be incredibly frustrating for the average person to buy an almost-$1000 device, use it until it runs out of battery, and realize that a charger is a completely separate purchase. Especially because the included cable is USB-C, so it won't work with most old power bricks. I feel like Steve wouldn't've let this happen... the UX is just so, so bad. It feels incredibly profit-motivated.

Are you serious? You think the average person a) doesn't know that you have to charge your phone and b) doesn't have like 50 of those stupid cubes and a bunch of cables sitting in a drawer somewhere? Tech people's continued assumption that they're the only ones who aren't total troglodytes is ridiculous.

I'm saying that they're expecting their phone to come with a charger.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#235

Post by Analemma_ »

jb775 wrote: post #104
freedomben wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked straight up before seeing the doc about the cost and nobody knew. They finally estimated "about $1,500" and my total bill was around $5,000. And if I refuse to pay it, they send me to collections. It's insane what they are allowed to do.

I've always wondered which part of the medical supply chain is causing healthcare prices to rise so rapidly. There's no way these are natural market rates being driven by supply/demand, it's gotta be something artificial. My guess is something along the lines of medical device companies colluding to prop up prices to hospitals.

There is no one part, the excessive costs can only be analyzed as a symptom of the system as a whole. One fellow online dubbed this "Coasian hell" and has a good writeup explaining where it comes from: http://www.harrowell.org.uk/blog/2018/01/31/in-the-eternal-i...

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#236

Post by gnicholas »

kortilla wrote: post #194
chrisseaton wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this new phone has different components. How do you know that the price of the phone without accessories is the same as before?

They pulled it out of existing iPhone lineup.

This is the key fact. It demonstrates that they're not interested in passing along cost savings, even where they clearly exist. This isn't just about new phones, it affects the SE as well.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#237

Post by TwoBit »

chrisseaton wrote: post #190
greedo wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Lightning cable is Lightning->USB-C. So all the old USB-A chargers won't work... Which means that people will through this cable in a drawer and use their old one (if it still works properly). One reason I loved getting a new iPhone was getting a new cable, charger and headphones since my old one's were usually beat after 2-3 years. So this is a huge pain in the wallet, as well as inconvenient.

> The Lightning cable is Lightning->USB-C Nonsense. I have tons of USB-A to Lightning cables. They cost dollars. > since my old one's were usually beat after 2-3 years What on earth are you doing to them?

Apple branded cables are terrible quality. It's due to something about trying to be different..

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#238

Post by chrisseaton »

gnicholas wrote: post #236
kortilla wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They pulled it out of existing iPhone lineup.

This is the key fact. It demonstrates that they're not interested in passing along cost savings, even where they clearly exist. This isn't just about new phones, it affects the SE as well.

Did the cost to manufacture the SE stay the same?

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#239

Post by duxup »

jacurtis wrote: post #122

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30. I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for remov…

I feel weird about sort of defending this practice but ... I don't have a problem with it.

There it is, the phone without a charger is the offer, you know it, I know it. We all know the price and the product.

There's no mystery here. This stuff about if it was a hard decision or not, I don't see how it matters. Folks who take this kinda of marketing to heart, I just don't get it.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#240

Post by toper-centage »

hammock wrote: post #231
stetrain wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"decided to not pass that savings onto the customer" Do you have access to the BOM? Sure it was likely a cost-savings measure, but it may have been to combat rising prices elsewhere. It's a two-sided equation and we can't see the whole thing. If Apple did want to be environmentally friendly though I would think offering a reasonably priced multi-device (4-ports?) charger would be more effective than just selling a si…

>Do you have access to the BOM? Sure it was likely a cost-savings measure, but it may have been to combat rising prices elsewhere. It's a two-sided equation and we can't see the whole thing. Unless the cost of a powerbrick went up by $50-60, there are savings that Apple is not passing onto the consumer.

So you're saying the cost of the iPhone 11 and 12 is the same? Also, why does it matter? These devices were never sold anywhere near their real cost and people still bought them, and still will.
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