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World reaction to long queues of voters in US

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Re: World reaction to long queues of voters in US

#151

Post by bpt3 »

hexadec wrote: post #101
bpt3 wrote: post #47

I'm not saying this is universally true, but in my area, a large portion of the people standing in these long lines are intentionally doing so to make a political statement (or more skeptically, are virtue signaling). There has been one voting station open in the entire county which adequately supported early voting based on historical trends, while dozens more are opening soon and will reduce (if not entirely elimin…

What political statement are they making aside from saying 'I would like to vote'? Even the densest election board recognizes this year is not based on historical trends and that early voting (which has been touted on national news) is one way to solve the issue.

> What political statement are they making aside from saying 'I would like to vote'?

The comments I've heard are to the effect of: "I want Trump out of office so badly, I waited in line for 2 hours to vote against him!"

> Even the densest election board recognizes this year is not based on historical trends and that early voting (which has been touted on national news) is one way to solve the issue.

Agreed. In their defense, we are currently in the "early early voting" stage in most areas (meaning very few polling stations are open), with the "early voting" stage starting up in the near future (with more polling stations opening up), followed by orders of magnitude more on election day.

Re: World reaction to long queues of voters in US

#152

Post by 12xo »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #114
12xo wrote: post #77

A little out of left field but here is my opinion on why we are here. None of this is possible without the perverted media market that view based advertising has created. The entire political landscape has grown to this mess because of "Click Bait" style ad metrics. Every single news outlet, media outlet and otherwise has been corrupted and perverted to seek instant gratification and has lowered their editorial bar s…

How is this relevant? These long lines and the voter suppression that they cause are both very real. Shining a light on that isn't "sensationalism".

Its relevant - albeit a little out of the purview, because without the rise of sensationalist based media creating the distractions, none of this is possible.

The lies, the distractions, the propaganda, the amplification of issues that simply-do-not exist, allows the power brokers the opportunity to do these types of things without the oversight and regulation that the Constitution and history used to have in place to contain such acts.

Its no different than a magical or illusionist using distraction and human behaviors against the audience so that they can paint a picture of what ever they choose. Or the infinite number of psych tricks used to fool people into giving up their money....

If the media was still beholden to facts and held actual integrity, and were not instead chasing a false metric that benefited them, the power brokers could not get away with these types of acts.

It goes deeper but the checks and balances of our Republic are no longer in place because we whored out our Congress and allowed the Foxes to buy their way to the front of the henhouse...

Re: World reaction to long queues of voters in US

#153

Post by throwaway0a5e »

leetcrew wrote: post #122
0x262d wrote: post #21

This article is an incredibly misleading, fake positive framing of what is in reality a rapidly failing democratic system. An 11-hour wait to vote is absolutely prohibitive to many of the people who most need change, on top of being terrible for everyone else; not that that is anything new for the US. It's basically a poll tax, which is one of the most regressively anti-democratic tools, but applied unevenly by locat…

mandatory voting doesn't sound very good to me for a few reasons. winning with 30% of eligible votes is functionally equivalent to winning with 51% (ie, you still get the office), but looks a lot different. forcing people to pick one seems like a way to make the strongest of several weak candidates appear more legitimate. as misguided as it may be, I think individuals ought to have the option to signal their dissatis…

I'm fine with "mandatory like the flag code".

I'm not fine with "mandatory like the speed limit".

Re: World reaction to long queues of voters in US

#154

Post by bpt3 »

justin66 wrote: post #123
bpt3 wrote: post #47

I'm not saying this is universally true, but in my area, a large portion of the people standing in these long lines are intentionally doing so to make a political statement (or more skeptically, are virtue signaling). There has been one voting station open in the entire county which adequately supported early voting based on historical trends, while dozens more are opening soon and will reduce (if not entirely elimin…

Are the officials administering the queue part of the conspiracy to create a long line to make a political statement (or more skeptically, are virtue signaling) as well?

In general, no. They assumed people would just wait until more polling stations opened up closer to election day (or on election day itself) to avoid waiting in these lines.

Re: World reaction to long queues of voters in US

#155

Post by clairity »

jdmichal wrote: post #19

So, these lines are not representative of an actual election day. Actual election day is November 3, 2020. Some states are in early voting right now [0]. That typically means that there's a very limited number of polling stations open. For instance, in Pinellas County, FL there's only 5 early voting locations, compared to 301 poll locations during election day. That's a 60x discrepancy! This is for 713,000 registered…

> “ And by far, the biggest problem is that election day is always on a Tuesday and is not a national holiday. IMO this would be the best change to make first, to enable more people to be available for voting.“

that would be nice and i’d support such a bill, but it wouldn’t likely increase voting rates drastically, as many (esp. working class) folks still work on (most) holidays.

to increase participation materially, the motivation to vote needs to be intrinsic (duty, patriotism, solidarity, optimism, etc.), and we can foster that through better voting mechanisms (score voting), more choice (election finance reform), proportional representation, less corruption, and more fairness and honesty. a tall order for sure, but something we need to be pushing and making progress toward every single election.

Re: World reaction to long queues of voters in US

#156

Post by acomjean »

cletus wrote: post #4

In Australia we have two things the US system desperately needs: mandatory voting and preferential voting. Preferential voting allows you to vote for a third party without wasting your vote. The standard argument against mandatory voting is people not wanting the uninformed to vote (trust me, they're voting) and the usual US predilection against that infringing "freedom". I was sympathetic to this until I saw the US…

I'm in america, and never had more than 30 minute wait to vote. But I'm in Massachusetts and we have early voting and a election commision that seems to want to make it easy.

Mandatory Voting actually seems like an interesting idea. Work/Government would have to make accommodations.

Voting rules here are handled by local entities (cites, counties and states). So sometimes sadly it gets gamed to try to favor one group of voters over another.

Its kinda a mess. Lawsuits are common.

Re: World reaction to long queues of voters in US

#157

Post by dvtrn »

beervirus wrote: post #136
dvtrn wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you and I define the words “fake” and “controversy” quite differently.

The opinion issued by the federal appeals court gives a lot more context than any news article I've seen. Even if you read just the first couple of pages, you'll be better-informed than 99% of the people talking about this, and I suspect you'll see my point. http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/20/20-50867-CV0.pdf

I’m not sure what bearing a court opinion has on my criticism of your calling the events that happened in Texas “fake”; regardless that said court decided the impact of Abbott’s proclamation was de minimis.

Re: World reaction to long queues of voters in US

#158

Post by 0x262d »

leetcrew wrote: post #122
0x262d wrote: post #21

This article is an incredibly misleading, fake positive framing of what is in reality a rapidly failing democratic system. An 11-hour wait to vote is absolutely prohibitive to many of the people who most need change, on top of being terrible for everyone else; not that that is anything new for the US. It's basically a poll tax, which is one of the most regressively anti-democratic tools, but applied unevenly by locat…

mandatory voting doesn't sound very good to me for a few reasons. winning with 30% of eligible votes is functionally equivalent to winning with 51% (ie, you still get the office), but looks a lot different. forcing people to pick one seems like a way to make the strongest of several weak candidates appear more legitimate. as misguided as it may be, I think individuals ought to have the option to signal their dissatis…

Mandatory voting doesn't preclude writing in nothing if you prefer. And for people who are uninformed, well, having to go through the motion helps that some. More than anything else, this would force the government to make it possible, easy, and routine for current non-voters to vote, which would dramatically shift election results to the left economically.

Re: World reaction to long queues of voters in US

#159

Post by ziroshima »

eej71 wrote: post #79
manishsharan wrote: post #9

I think the most worrying aspect is an emerging strain of political thought in the US that USA is merely a republic but not a democracy. I find it quite shocking that it has gained a great deal of acceptance. edit : typo

I'm one of those people. I certainly see America as a republic first and foremost. I appreciate the design of America that incorporates democratically electing one's representives in the House of Representives while balancing the downsides of such a process against other forms of voting. It's necessary to capture the passions of the body politic at large - which democratic voting does! - but it's also necessary to in…

Well said, and couldn't agree more. An actual democracy is a terrifying prospect.

Re: World reaction to long queues of voters in US

#160

Post by 12xo »

12xo wrote: post #152
jakelazaroff wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this relevant? These long lines and the voter suppression that they cause are both very real. Shining a light on that isn't "sensationalism".

Its relevant - albeit a little out of the purview, because without the rise of sensationalist based media creating the distractions, none of this is possible. The lies, the distractions, the propaganda, the amplification of issues that simply-do-not exist, allows the power brokers the opportunity to do these types of things without the oversight and regulation that the Constitution and history used to have in place t…

In other words: The lines are a result of the Right using media to create distractions and issues that allow them to get away with these types of repressive acts. Without their propaganda machines working in sync, enraging their audiences with false fears, (non-existent voter fraud for example), they cannot do get away with these things. Its classic distraction, just played out over a decade, instead of a few minutes.

The lines are one example of this because they have leveraged their media to make people HATE the other side enough to literally cut of their noses to spite their faces.

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