That advice to women to ‘lean in’, be more confident it doesn’t help
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That advice to women to ‘lean in’, be more confident it doesn’t help
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Re: That advice to women to ‘lean in’, be more confident it doesn’t help
#2"be more confident" is some of the funniest advice ever, invariably the people who don't need to hear it are the ones who take it to heart.
Re: That advice to women to ‘lean in’, be more confident it doesn’t help
#3It probably doesn't work for men either. Go figure.
Re: That advice to women to ‘lean in’, be more confident it doesn’t help
#4Women of HN: how do you think your male peers can best help to close the gaps in tech (and otherwise)? A lot of us want to help, but I fear we are often misguided.
Re: That advice to women to ‘lean in’, be more confident it doesn’t help
#5She showed a graph of 'hope for success' versus 'predicted probability for promotion'- it's just outright silly to attempt to represent something as complicated as this on two axises. Any attempt to quantify something like "hope for success" can branch into endless debate about setting success criteria, defining hope, measuring anything in this space, etc. This is a philosophical or psychological issue, not a mathematical one.
Data visualization is a terrible way to make an argument about human behavior.
Re: That advice to women to ‘lean in’, be more confident it doesn’t help
#6I recall some conspiracy theorist that "Lean In" was heavily popularized by a right wing think tank, because at a surface level, it's message recontextualizes a lack of opportunity for women in various fields, not as a system issue of sexism, but as a personal failure. 'The reason there aren't more women engineers is because women just aren't confident enough! There doesn't need to be any national policy changes to maternity leave!'
Re: That advice to women to ‘lean in’, be more confident it doesn’t help
#7> ‘Fixing’ women is itself a problem
That's been my experience as well with female bosses. The best ones I've had seemed genuine, and led in their own way. The ones that tried to act like males usually fed into the "confident women are bitches" stereotype because everyone could tell that they were insecure about being in charge, and tried to overcompensate by trying to emulate super aggressive alpha-male types. Males make the same mistake, but it feels like they get an opportunity to correct their behavior, whereas females don't get another chance once they are painted as "that bitch boss".
Re: That advice to women to ‘lean in’, be more confident it doesn’t help
#8I certainly cannot say what the solution is, but I can say that not speaking up, not getting noticed, and generally quietly toiling does not seem to attract opportunities and promotion.
Since people generally seem to underestimate the work and effort that any job other than their own takes, being quiet and capable means forever remaining quiet and capable in the same position. This applies to men and surely also applies to women (although there likely may be additional factors for women).
My point is, regardless of what gender you are, being calculatedly outspoken and visible is surely a necessary element in one's career progression.
Re: That advice to women to ‘lean in’, be more confident it doesn’t help
#9Women of HN: how do you think your male peers can best help to close the gaps in tech (and otherwise)? A lot of us want to help, but I fear we are often misguided.
- don't talk over women in meetings
- don't ask women to do informal "secretarial work" for the group, e.g. note-taking, summarizing meetings, ordering the Christmas cards, buying birthday presents, ordering furniture
- don't expect all women to have the same personality (warm, bubbly, cold, bitchy, etc.)
- don't say dumb shit about maternity leave (the day I came back from maternity leave, my boss told me he wished he had been on "vacation" for 3 months)
- hire men too for traditionally "women-dominated" roles, e.g. office manager, customer support, chief of staff, HR. Show that gender balance cuts both ways.
- don't make assumptions for women with kids (oh, you probably can't come to that happy hour, etc.) that you wouldn't make for men with kids
I personally think on-campus recruiting is a great way to get young women into tech. I loved mentoring the young women we hired, managing them, promoting them, etc. (before I left to found my own company).
Re: That advice to women to ‘lean in’, be more confident it doesn’t help
#10She showed a graph of 'hope for success' versus 'predicted probability for promotion'- it's just outright silly to attempt to represent something as complicated as this on two axises. Any attempt to quantify something like "hope for success" can branch into endless debate about setting success criteria, defining hope, measuring anything in this space, etc. This is a philosophical or psychological issue, not a mathema…
Case in point, she is a woman. She's oversimplified her world so much that she thinks she's found THE answer