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2.1M of the oldest Usenet posts are now online for anyone to read

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Re: 2.1M of the oldest Usenet posts are now online for anyone to read

#241
post #239

This is pretty unethical by what normal HN standards are around privacy. This is a bit like as a teenager going to a meeting in the 80's, having it recorded without you knowing and now it being on online. There was no expectations usenet would be stored or be searchable back then.

I disagree, it was sort of public

If I see you doing something private through your window you left open while I'm in a public place, then put it on the internet with search criteria pointing to you.

That's also sort of public. Actually, it 100% is.

It's still not ethical by normal HN standards.

Expectations, right or wrong, for privacy are normally respected on HN. That's all my point is.

Soon using infrared and other techniques we'll be able to get pretty good naked images of people in public too. Every part of your body on a search engine. It's all... like it or not, I guess. But we should at least think about privacy.

Re: 2.1M of the oldest Usenet posts are now online for anyone to read

#243
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are many words censored? To take a completely random example (I just took one with many asterisks) where it makes the post completely illegible: https://www.usenetarchives.com/view.php?id=soc.sexuality.gen... For an archive this is a big no-no. Respect the source material! Otherwise, thank you for the time spent doing this.

> For an archive this is a big no-no. Respect the source material! Though I'm also curious, that's perhaps not the tone I would have used when asking. After all, better a censored archive than no archive. I'm just speculating, but it may be the policy of usenetarchives.com, in order to accept their upload. Censoring seems to be done around email addresses, names, and offensive words. Perhaps, this is done to reduce t…

I've decided to remove bad word filtering and all other censoring. Let's see how it goes.

Re: 2.1M of the oldest Usenet posts are now online for anyone to read

#244
post #209
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Others have covered what Usenet was. To further give you an idea of how different those times were, here is my email address from the signature on one of my Usenet posts from the '80s: ihnp4!{cithep,wlbr!callan}!tim What that meant was that to get an email to me, your computer should arrange to deliver it to ihnp4. That was the name of a machine at a Bell Labs office at a place named "Indian Hill" in Naperville, IL.…

> what Usenet was Usenet is still around, I still read it most days, with trn. Most newsgroups are either dead or pure spam, but some are active with real content.

> pure spam

I think this is what really did usenet in for me. I used to use newsgroups quite a bit in the early 2000s, then moved on to forums, and then of course social media took over (and now I'm substantially over that).

Given that usenet is now past its popular heyday, I thought it would also be past the peak of spam - and it probably is - but having just registered with eternal-september.org, I'm still pretty surprised by how much spam is in some of these groups. Granted a lot of it is old (because I told Thunderbird to just download all the headers), but there's loads of more recent stuff as well: e.g., crap about COVID in all kinds of groups, as if we're not hearing and reading enough about it already.

This is kind of a shame. If newsgroups had a viable mechanism for combating spam I think they'd still be a great place to hang out because they were and are a one-stop shop for such a wide range of activities and interests. In addition, and ignoring the spam, the reading and writing experience is still really pleasant.

Re: 2.1M of the oldest Usenet posts are now online for anyone to read

#245
Question as this was before my time. Was Usenet considered public or secure (possibly a foreign idea back then with computing)? Curious if there are any security implications to large archive projects like this, especially considering how early this was, people may have taken confidentiality lightly?

I shudder at a potential early Myspace/Facebook archive in 20-30 years.

Re: 2.1M of the oldest Usenet posts are now online for anyone to read

#246
post #245

Question as this was before my time. Was Usenet considered public or secure (possibly a foreign idea back then with computing)? Curious if there are any security implications to large archive projects like this, especially considering how early this was, people may have taken confidentiality lightly? I shudder at a potential early Myspace/Facebook archive in 20-30 years.

Usenet was public and distributed.

Once you posted something, you had no real control over it being retained and archived. There was a message header you could set ("X-No-Archive: yes" IIRC), but it could not really be enforced.

Re: 2.1M of the oldest Usenet posts are now online for anyone to read

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice to see Gen X mentioned. In the several years, the media has mentioned only Boomers, Millennials, and Gen Z. It’s like Gen X is the lost generation.

This is something that I've been aware of for a while now. Us (Gen-Xrs) have had a rough time of it; The boomers rode the financial booms and mostly did well, and the millennials are pandered to everywhere you look, whereas we had to suffer more than one financial crash, and the media and retail pretend like we don't exist, so nothing is aligned to our values or desires. Even worse, there's a large chunk of millenial…

This is very far off from my millennial experience

1; I’m a 34yo millennial, 2; my siblings are ~40ish yo gen-xers, 3; my parents are 65yo boomers.

My genx siblings all bought massive houses around 2008 when I was starting my career which in 2008 meant being lucky to make $40k as a sysadmin. Obama subsidies all over the place if you had 5-10 years to put together a downpayment, though. I don’t think my paycheck became NOT hand-to-face until I was in my mid-late 20s and making well into 6 figures. And I’m not eating avocado toast or buying starbucks.

This is my 2nd recession since I started my career. In the first I was a “JR” and couldn’t get a job. Now I’m a SR and overqualified at most places. I barely know any millenial colleagues of mine that are home owners. And once again, I’m in my mid 30s.

And no, I don’t have children along with half of my mid-30s friends because we can’t afford them along with the 70k+ Of college debt and $600k starter houses.

The truly sad part though, millennials actually remember and know what life was like starting out around ~2008. We’re very open to mentoring and hiring gen-z. Social media wasn’t what it was back in 2008, of course, but I don’t remember any genxers going out of their way to get us millennials hired, go over our resumes, refer us, etc. I luckily landed my first engineering job from another millennial over IRC. This goes into the culture of the company, interviewing, everything. The people bitching about having to describe how to throw a rock or explain why manholes are round? They’re millennials who got those stupid questions when we were JRs because of a horrible job market that Boomers/Genx allowed to continue as the status quo. Not all, of course, but there’s a lot.

Instead of working to make things better for those coming up behind you, you’re acting like the victim. We can all come up with reasons that things suck. Let’s try to improve things.

Re: 2.1M of the oldest Usenet posts are now online for anyone to read

#248

Folks, I am the guy behind this project. A friend of mine mentioned he saw the site mentioned on hacker news, so I came to check it out. If you have any questions for me, don't hesitate to ask, as time permits (and two little boys), I'll do my best to answer them.

How do you deal with the (European) right to be forgotten?

On one hand it’s nice that we can see all this old data. On the other hand, as far as I remember in the 90s you typically subscribed to a newsgroup and only then got recent posts. So the expectations was a limited life time of the post. Of course it would still be stored in thousands of readers.

Obviously the copyright of each post is with the author. You just assume that you have a right to redistribute.

I’m also happy if I get a pointer elsewhere if you have an url.

Re: 2.1M of the oldest Usenet posts are now online for anyone to read

#249

Folks, I am the guy behind this project. A friend of mine mentioned he saw the site mentioned on hacker news, so I came to check it out. If you have any questions for me, don't hesitate to ask, as time permits (and two little boys), I'll do my best to answer them.

Any chance at getting access to all the other raw data? The UTZOO archives have been invaluable, and the only reason they survive today is because they were mirrored.

DMCA took this incredible resource off line. Please don’t let this happen again, as even archive.org found it easier to destroy it all than to fight Marty.

Plus it allows all us little people build fun things with it, like my altavista based search of utzoo:

altavista.superglobalmegacorp.com

Thanks

Re: 2.1M of the oldest Usenet posts are now online for anyone to read

#250

Folks, I am the guy behind this project. A friend of mine mentioned he saw the site mentioned on hacker news, so I came to check it out. If you have any questions for me, don't hesitate to ask, as time permits (and two little boys), I'll do my best to answer them.

Nice work my friend. As many demo-scene groups were active on newsgroups before going very dark almost 30 years ago I'm curious if you also have a collection that you can contribute to this basic collection https://archive.org/details/scenenotices . There's lots of this stuff going on throughout the decades but you may be in a position to help preserve history / lineage on the entire environment.

Archive.org destroyed their utzoo mirror.

It’s sadly not good enough.

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