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There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

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Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#71

Post by Shivetya »

unholiness wrote: post #55

MA voter who's genuinely torn here. The thing that bugs me out about this law is that, AFAICT, this data is _already_ required to be available to any 3rd party manufacturer through a physical "non-proprietary interface" (so far, an OBD-II port) after a similar ballot initiative from 2013 [0]. This law essentially just makes the data available wirelessly. I care about security holes and I care about consent. Having a…

If they are transmitting it then it should be available to the vehicle's owner otherwise the law should state that they cannot transmit it.

As in, if they want the data it can only be retrieved while in service and physically connected with a copy made available to the vehicle owner

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#72

Post by crispyambulance »

I have to say, the linked Voter Information document in the article does a great job of describing the intent of question and the consequences for a "yes" or "no" vote. I wish all ballot questions had such a clear explanation.

These ballot questions are typically bizarrely phrased in legalistic and often deliberately misleading language. Someone entering a voting booth unprepared to read a dense confusing paragraph about a topic they may have never thought of is vulnerable to the whims of whatever politics are in play behind the rhetoric of the ballot question.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#73

Post by technothrasher »

Vinnl wrote: post #64
kibwen wrote: post #13

The other ballot option in MA this year, Question 2, would enable ranked choice voting for state and federal elections. There was a bit of a thread about this the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24561551 What's weird is that before moving to MA I had never even heard of ballot options. As far as I can tell they just don't exist in PA, so social studies curricula just don't teach them. I'm increasingly…

> What's weird is that before moving to MA I had never even heard of ballot options. I'm not even from the US - what are ballot options? I can't find much about them, but from what I've seen, they seem similar to referendums?

Yes, a ballot question can be a referendum or an initiative. Basically, at least in MA, if you as a citizen want a law passed or repealed and you don't think the legislature will take it up, you can collect signatures of people who agree with you. If you get enough, it will be added to the next state election as a question for the voters to yea or nay.

In other words, it's a direct democracy end run around the usual representative democracy system.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#74

Post by wil421 »

b112 wrote: post #61
derekdahmer wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most cars probably don't store that data. The opposition ad is lying about whats in your car and who can access it.

If it's one thing I've learned over the years, it's that if someone can, and there's any profit motive, they will. In terms of storing data? 20 years ago my VW recorded a great deal, as I discovered when the dealer's repair shop said to me "So you like to drive fast, eh?". They knew precisely how fast, too. What else is stored in that black box, which is often used by insurance companies, and police, after an acciden…

German vehicles are known to keep speeding data especially around redlines. I know BMW’s do this and it sounds like VW.

However, I’ve never personally heard about Japanese or American cars saving redlines. Does anyone know if they do?

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#75

Post by pjc50 »

nessunodoro wrote: post #4
hprotagonist wrote: post #2

The No side's ads are incredibly scummy. The retired boston police commissioner has done an ad spot for Yes on Right To Repair specifically to slap down the "you will be raped in a parking lot" FUD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bye5DRBSpw The EFF is also strongly in favor, naturally, but i think Ed Davis will pull more weight if anyone's undecided. (when marijuana legalization was on the ballot in 2016, the then-…

Scummy is a polite word for the advertisements. It's been fascinating to watch them evolve in waves. First wave: POV of a predator in a parking garage approaching a woman. Grave female voiceover: "Sexual predators could track your automobile, and remotely control the vehicle - including unlocking the doors." The female victim turns as the camera descends on her - she screams - "Vote No on Question 1. Don't let sexual…

It's interesting that there's no norm against participating in this kind of gross dishonesty. Everyone is comfortable that political speech is just a set of things you say to win the argument, and need bear no relation to any real or plausible events.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#76

Post by BostonEnginerd »

cycloptic wrote: post #41
nessunodoro wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scummy is a polite word for the advertisements. It's been fascinating to watch them evolve in waves. First wave: POV of a predator in a parking garage approaching a woman. Grave female voiceover: "Sexual predators could track your automobile, and remotely control the vehicle - including unlocking the doors." The female victim turns as the camera descends on her - she screams - "Vote No on Question 1. Don't let sexual…

Ha, as if auto manufacturers all have an org dedicated to monitoring and deterring sexual predators and Russian hackers. Can anyone from one of these companies comment on this? Can I get a discount if I opt out of that at the dealership? I'm a techie, really I'd prefer to install Windows Defender on the car myself, thank you!

It wouldn’t be so laughable if the auto manufacturers didn’t already claim your data as their own and sell it to marketers.

This tidbit from the Onstar privacy policy made me laugh:

“The nature of our products and services means that there may be circumstances where you might let someone else use a product or service that we provide to you (for example, you let someone else drive your OnStar equipped vehicle). It is important that if you do let someone else use one of our products or services that you inform them of this Privacy Statement and of the privacy choices that you have made.“

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#77

Post by jayparth »

nickff wrote: post #66
cheweh wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over $23 million paid by automakers funded these scummy advertisements. Thankfully we know this from campaign finance transparency. The ads say in fine print that they are paid for by the "Coalition for Safe and Secure Data" and that top donors include "the Alliance for Automotive Innovation." A Coalition campaign finance report from 2020 [0] shows $23 million in receipts from the likes of Ford Motor Company, General…

Do these reports really matter? Did they change your mind about the issue, or shape your opinion in any way other than fueling your previous view? I hear many people support these sorts of rules, but nobody seems to really benefit from them.

Which reports? Reports that require disclosure of political advertising spend?

Yes. They're incredibly important. I want to know who is paying to try to influence an election. Many times, actionable information is exposed through these reports.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#78

Post by pc86 »

hprotagonist wrote: post #2

The No side's ads are incredibly scummy. The retired boston police commissioner has done an ad spot for Yes on Right To Repair specifically to slap down the "you will be raped in a parking lot" FUD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bye5DRBSpw The EFF is also strongly in favor, naturally, but i think Ed Davis will pull more weight if anyone's undecided. (when marijuana legalization was on the ballot in 2016, the then-…

To be fair, police already had the option to stop wasting their time on stupid college students, it's called discretion.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#79

Post by pc86 »

jayparth wrote: post #77
nickff wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do these reports really matter? Did they change your mind about the issue, or shape your opinion in any way other than fueling your previous view? I hear many people support these sorts of rules, but nobody seems to really benefit from them.

Which reports? Reports that require disclosure of political advertising spend? Yes. They're incredibly important. I want to know who is paying to try to influence an election. Many times, actionable information is exposed through these reports.

Are you going to sell your car or buy a different make of car because of information contained in these reports specifically?

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#80

Post by nkurz »

b112 wrote: post #53
b112 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. This, this, this. Worse, it doesn't give you extra value, it detracts value. It's info about you, out of your control, yet unlike gmail, which is free, you've paid cold hard cash to be tracked. I think what we need is just an "everything" bill. If you pay ANYTHING for the hardware, then you control EVERYTHING. The full stack. You can't sell it, the code isn't yours, but by rights you get the full dev kit for th…

Amusing, IMMEDIATE downvote by closed-source advocates.

More likely, it's your phrasing and typography that is causing downvotes rather than your ideology. Using capitals for emphasis violates the guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html), and for many people, starting with repeated this's pattern-matches to a low quality comment. You might ask yourself if your style is conducive to the message you are trying to convey.
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