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San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

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Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#401

Post by Spooky23 »

legerdemain wrote: post #329
Spooky23 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bay Area is insane. I pay $850/mo for a 4B/2BA house in upstate NY. I work locally and telecommute now, but I used to commute regularly to the Boston and NYC metro areas with commute times similar to what I hear about from some colleagues in the Bay area. 2 hours on Amtrak (+10m drive) is much more pleasant than 90 minutes in the car to me. The haul to Boston was truly awful, but the pay was too good to pass up.

Wow! My mom lives in a small, dated apartment in an unexciting suburb of Rochester away from colleges, with paper-thin walls and ceilings, and pays about $1000 in rent. That seems standard for the area. About 20 years ago we paid $650 a month for a tiny two-bedroom. How does your upstate New York cost less than one fourth of that?

Rents always suck upstate. A two bedroom in a nice development in a suburban town near me is about $1400/mo. Ownership is always cheaper.

As for the costs -- I cheat a bit. I've been able to build more equity over the years and refinanced into lower LTVs as time and rates went down. I bought my first house as a student at a SUNY school -- my mortgage was about the same as a "student ghetto" apartment. This house I bought about 15 years ago. In my urban neighborhood, houses sell for about $135 sqft today. In the suburbs, it's about 30% more, and you are basically paying for better schools.

You can get a small, nice house in a place like Fairport, NY for $150k. I don't know that area super well, but you might find lower costs in an adjacent county without the tax/infrastructure burden of Rochester.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#402

Post by geebee »

tathougies wrote: post #354
geebee wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no... but neither is having a problem with street addiction and mental illness. SF has it bad, no doubt, but on recent (<5 years) to Seattle, Portland, Nashville, Los Angeles, and Milwaukee, I did see the extent to which this isn't purely a SF problem. NY was actually the best of the bunch, remarkably, though last time I was there was 6 years ago, and things have deteriorated remarkably in SF even in the last 10 year…

You are certainly not wrong. This is a major problem in many places in the country. It's gross. Portland and Seattle are definitely much worse than SF. LA is much nicer than what it used to be, and still better than SF, but I grew up in LA so I have the natural tendency to ignore everything bad with it.

I hear you. San Franciscans historically had an extremely obnoxious tendency to only see the negative side of LA. Seems like it's fading a bit, though, partly because SF's are too severe to stay smug, and partly because LA keeps getting more interesting. I grew up in SF but moved to LA for a while in the late 90s to work in the software side of film compositing/editing. Finally opened my eyes to how much fun it is. My guess is that with electric cars and more urbanization, LA will may well become a warm, crowded, culturally varied and ethnically diverse place with sprawling suburbs and dense urban areas, a lucrative and creative entertainment sector and somewhat smaller tech sector, clean air and water, beaches, and eternally lousy traffic.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#403

Post by scsilver »

tarsinge wrote: post #137
zdragnar wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counter anecdote, I know three people from the bay area who moved out during covidtide, but had already planned the move beforehand. (This is a very high percentage of people I know from the bay area, hence the anecdote). All had the same rationale: taxes and housing were simply far too high when they could work remotely and live anywhere else. Sure, you don't get the same outdoors, food or retail scene, but ple…

> food or retail scene In my experience this is becoming less and less true, smaller cities are really catching up, it's not 2010 anymore. My pet theory is that social networks like Instagram have done a good job spreading fashion and food experiences/expectations that were previously exclusives to big city centers.

I think this is really true. Ive been getting great coffee and food in the smallest towns, tourist towns albeit, but metropolitan level fanciness on a gateway town to capital reef NP is impressive. I can get my fancy latte's in almost every nook in america, some might be closed on sundays though.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#404

Post by WWLink »

mercutio2 wrote: post #264
tarsinge wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> food or retail scene In my experience this is becoming less and less true, smaller cities are really catching up, it's not 2010 anymore. My pet theory is that social networks like Instagram have done a good job spreading fashion and food experiences/expectations that were previously exclusives to big city centers.

I keep reading people make this claim. I haven't found it to be even remotely true for the food my family is inclined to eat. Every time I've gone to visit hip small college towns for the last 5 years, I've eagerly sought out the talked-about eateries, and they were all... distinctly mediocre compared to NYC or Bay Area or LA food. You still can't find anything but Americanized Asian food, even the California-cuisine…

> You still can't find anything but Americanized Asian food

Anecdotally, I moved from the bay area to somewhere near los angeles a while ago, and the americanized chinese food here sucks compared to what I could get in the bay area. And it costs twice as much! :(

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#405

Post by claudeganon »

opportune wrote: post #383
mercutio2 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep reading people make this claim. I haven't found it to be even remotely true for the food my family is inclined to eat. Every time I've gone to visit hip small college towns for the last 5 years, I've eagerly sought out the talked-about eateries, and they were all... distinctly mediocre compared to NYC or Bay Area or LA food. You still can't find anything but Americanized Asian food, even the California-cuisine…

I’m honestly surprised so many people put Bay Area/SF food on the same scale as NYC and LA. It only makes sense when you consider top-tier fine dining (like, Michelin star(s)) IMO. For middle-tier dining I think SF and the Bay Area don’t even come close to either of those cities. In fact I think those hip young college towns are much better, in my experience. It’s just that it’s going to be a different set of foods:…

I lived in LA for a long time and I would say NYC has it beat by a large margin when it comes to bourgie restaurants. Most of the hip places in LA are uniformly terrible, the places that have been around a long time are about as good as the same kinds of places in NYC, and the various ethnic restaurants are better in LA (assuming they’re in their neighborhood enclaves).

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#406

Post by scsilver »

01100011 wrote: post #390
bgorman wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please report back in February after experiencing a -40 day :)

In the north central US, you have to stay indoors for a while because it's too cold. In the sunbelt, you have to stay indoors for a while because it's too hot. In CA, you have to stay indoors for a while because of the poor air quality. Take your pic. CA folks seem to think the rest of the world is an inhospitable wasteland. Sure, CA is a bit more mild, but it's not perfect.

Summer in the north, winter in the south.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#407

Post by treis »

OldHand2018 wrote: post #267
bgorman wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please report back in February after experiencing a -40 day :)

Spend a few hundred dollars on some quality winter gear and don't worry about it. Wear layers. A scarf makes a huge difference. Probably larger than you would think. Chicago will probably get a "polar vortex" in February or March. It will be a week of really cold weather and then it will be over. You'll probably find that November and December are warmer than you expected. January is a bit dreary, but only because of…

>That sun can be intense!

For the two hours a day it's out!

Obviously an exaggeration but you can go to work in the dark and drive home in the dark on the shortest days of the year. Can be a real bummer for those that didn't grow up like that.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#408

Post by jonathathan »

whytaka wrote: post #336
perardi wrote: post #10

And just north of the border: Toronto rent prices are down 14.9% year-over-year. https://rentals.ca/national-rent-report (Detached home prices? Up 10.8%, to an average of $1.14 million CAD. Sigh.)

Why is Montreal up 24% YOY?

Lots of people are moving to Montreal as they're priced out of Toronto

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#409

Post by gautamcgoel »

jzoch wrote: post #377
tarsinge wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> food or retail scene In my experience this is becoming less and less true, smaller cities are really catching up, it's not 2010 anymore. My pet theory is that social networks like Instagram have done a good job spreading fashion and food experiences/expectations that were previously exclusives to big city centers.

As everyone else is echoing - really not true. I grew up in Orange County which, for a suburb, has really good food options. Tons and tons of restaurants and a lot of people accustomed to nice things. The difference in food options between SF (where I am now) and OC (or LA vs OC) is absolutely astounding. Its really not even close. Its gotten better but large cities are still orders of magnitude better.

Just to make sure I understand, your saying you have better options in LA and SF than in OC? Couldn't quite make out from your comment.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#410

Post by perardi »

jonathathan wrote: post #408
whytaka wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Montreal up 24% YOY?

Lots of people are moving to Montreal as they're priced out of Toronto

Yeah, that’s my anecdotal take. Montreal has had relatively cheap rent, and it’s attracted the youths. (Assuming said youths work for an English company and can get transferred, or they speak French.)

Not surprised to see Ottawa up a bit. Still pretty flat, but I have definitely known people who have moved there for the rent, or to buy.

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