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San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

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Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#391

Post by ryan_lane »

irrational wrote: post #381
mercutio2 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep reading people make this claim. I haven't found it to be even remotely true for the food my family is inclined to eat. Every time I've gone to visit hip small college towns for the last 5 years, I've eagerly sought out the talked-about eateries, and they were all... distinctly mediocre compared to NYC or Bay Area or LA food. You still can't find anything but Americanized Asian food, even the California-cuisine…

My baseline is grilled cheddar cheese on plain white bread with Campbell's Tomato Soup is the greatest food ever invented. I once went to a work lunch at one of the city's most raved about restaurants. I ordered the grilled cheese and tomato soup. That was when I realized that I really am not a food connoisseur. How can something so simple as grilled cheese and tomato soup be so thoroughly ruined, just in an effort t…

You can't serve something like that at a restaurant and make it in a plain way, because it's something that basically everyone can make at home for really cheap. People are looking for an interesting take on something like that in a restaurant, which isn't going to fit what you want.

That's a poor choice to judge a restaurant on. You need to base your judgement on things you can't or won't cook at home because it takes too much time, is too complicated, or uses ingredients that are difficult to get.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#392

Post by vikiomega9 »

jzoch wrote: post #377
tarsinge wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> food or retail scene In my experience this is becoming less and less true, smaller cities are really catching up, it's not 2010 anymore. My pet theory is that social networks like Instagram have done a good job spreading fashion and food experiences/expectations that were previously exclusives to big city centers.

As everyone else is echoing - really not true. I grew up in Orange County which, for a suburb, has really good food options. Tons and tons of restaurants and a lot of people accustomed to nice things. The difference in food options between SF (where I am now) and OC (or LA vs OC) is absolutely astounding. Its really not even close. Its gotten better but large cities are still orders of magnitude better.

Are there specific cuisines? The Indian options are pretty bad imo, there are a few good places but overall not as good as the South Bay.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#393

Post by outside1234 »

burlesona wrote: post #51

I would say the city being “closed” is the major driver. Among my group of ~40 coworkers, about 30 (including me) have left the city. As far as I know all but one were renting. Everyone who left gave the following rationale: - we can work remotely so move wherever or nomad now - SF is not very fun during the pandemic - WFH in my tiny apartment is much less enjoyable than when I was working in the office and didn’t sp…

I don't know - Microsoft is moving to essentially the Github model of letting people live where they want.

This is a fundamental shift and broadening and many people lived in the city for access to jobs that now they can live elsewhere for.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#394

Post by 01100011 »

notherthrowaway wrote: post #154

I think people are asking the wrong questions. We know that people moving back in with their parents is up about 3 million due to COVID [1]. It would follow that studio apartments are the mostly likely to be rented by those same young people, thus the demand has dried up. The question we aren't asking is, what happens when the economy recovers and these people move out of their parent's homes? Will they go back to th…

IMO, there is a certain younger generation with an affinity for urban life. As they age, they will, to some degree, lose that affinity for urban life. I think there's a chance that cities will lose their appeal for a while.

Combine that with companies pushing more remote work, or setting up satellite offices, and you may see a slight decline in urban areas for a few years until it is in fashion again.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#396

Post by opportune »

boulos wrote: post #151
seibelj wrote: post #3

The free market wins again - supply and demand uber alles. If we can't build tons of new apartments, then 1/3 the city fleeing for the suburbs does the trick too!

Actually, while many units were built, they were almost all in tall buildings in Soma. Many of those are occupied by renters, and approximately everyone wanted out (100 unit building with a pair of elevators isn’t a covid friendly plan). Like jeffbee says below: if you take just a little supply or demand out of the system, it can massively swing. As an example, in addition to the flight of many renters, single-family…

Yeah, the other issue with Soma is that most of the appeal is that it’s in/next to the areas with all the big tech offices, which has been made obsolete. That (in addition to being new construction) commanded a large premium that’s erased. And the homeless situation in parts of Soma has got worse to boot.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#397

Post by throwaway4715 »

quicklyfrozen wrote: post #269
notherthrowaway wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

==This general shift in attitude will make it far more realistic to work where you actually in your heart of hearts want to live.== Will young people suddenly not want to live in close proximity to other young people? Will that become another luxury item for the well-connected?

Some will want to stay in proximity to the young people they already know.

The ones that want that already do.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#398

Post by epistasis »

iask wrote: post #395

That’s not enough. It needs to get to 60%. In NYC, 70%. Time to be realistic.

That would be really nice, but for that to happen we need to build a ton more housing (or lose a lot of population, which personally I do not find appealing). And since decreasing rental values means that property owners and landlords are making less money or seeing their investments rise in value more slowly, and since such property owners control city governments, it’s unlikely to happen unless control can be wrested from those hands.

Such housing abundance would be good for everybody, but change is scary, and nearly all factions in SF oppose change of all varieties, even when it would benefit them materially. Don’t know as much about why NYC has not produced enough housing to support the number of people that would prefer to live in NYC.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#399

Post by geebee »

xyhopguy wrote: post #288
geebee wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair question, and the answer will depend on what people emphasize in life. I'll venture a firm answer for SF: Though SF is no New York, it is notably more urban than Portland. San Francisco is physically more strikingly beautiful than Portland, with magnificent views of the bay and ocean from the hills. Portland is surrounded by beautiful forests and parks, but so is SF - you can get from downtown SF into t…

You make excellent points -- the point related to culture is the most common I've heard from people outside Portland (particularly non-white people). I think the only things you omitted are the differences in weather and the size of the cities. - Portland is a fairly small city (especially inner portland) with a long history of anti-growth sentiment. The result is very rural agricultural areas _just_ outside of Portl…

Portland is really nice, I've enjoyed my trips up there. I was positing an answer to the somewhat open question of why someone wouldn't leave SF for Portland. I think there are compelling reasons why someone would prefer to stay in SF, but nobody would need to explain to me why they prefer Portland! I can see all kinds of reasons someone would prefer it.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#400

Post by apeescape »

opportune wrote: post #383
mercutio2 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep reading people make this claim. I haven't found it to be even remotely true for the food my family is inclined to eat. Every time I've gone to visit hip small college towns for the last 5 years, I've eagerly sought out the talked-about eateries, and they were all... distinctly mediocre compared to NYC or Bay Area or LA food. You still can't find anything but Americanized Asian food, even the California-cuisine…

I’m honestly surprised so many people put Bay Area/SF food on the same scale as NYC and LA. It only makes sense when you consider top-tier fine dining (like, Michelin star(s)) IMO. For middle-tier dining I think SF and the Bay Area don’t even come close to either of those cities. In fact I think those hip young college towns are much better, in my experience. It’s just that it’s going to be a different set of foods:…

Agreed, I feel like SF restaurants are relatively pricey, so in order to get the good stuff you'll have to pay a lot more than in many other places in the world.
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