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San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

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Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#381

Post by irrational »

mercutio2 wrote: post #264
tarsinge wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> food or retail scene In my experience this is becoming less and less true, smaller cities are really catching up, it's not 2010 anymore. My pet theory is that social networks like Instagram have done a good job spreading fashion and food experiences/expectations that were previously exclusives to big city centers.

I keep reading people make this claim. I haven't found it to be even remotely true for the food my family is inclined to eat. Every time I've gone to visit hip small college towns for the last 5 years, I've eagerly sought out the talked-about eateries, and they were all... distinctly mediocre compared to NYC or Bay Area or LA food. You still can't find anything but Americanized Asian food, even the California-cuisine…

My baseline is grilled cheddar cheese on plain white bread with Campbell's Tomato Soup is the greatest food ever invented. I once went to a work lunch at one of the city's most raved about restaurants. I ordered the grilled cheese and tomato soup. That was when I realized that I really am not a food connoisseur. How can something so simple as grilled cheese and tomato soup be so thoroughly ruined, just in an effort to make it fancy?

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#382

Post by dan_quixote »

dudul wrote: post #376
mxcrossb wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the mindset I really don’t understand though. Sure your company can say “we’re all remote” today, but they can just as easily say “everyone has to come back” in six months. Or “everyone doesn’t have to, but those who don’t are the first laid off next time”. I’ve been fully remote since March, so I’ve been weighing this for awhile”

I think this ship has sailed. When even FAANGs start doing full time remote who would be crazy enough to go back to on-site only?

Unless upper management goes full-time remote, then power (and ambitious employees) will always consolidate.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#383

Post by opportune »

mercutio2 wrote: post #264
tarsinge wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> food or retail scene In my experience this is becoming less and less true, smaller cities are really catching up, it's not 2010 anymore. My pet theory is that social networks like Instagram have done a good job spreading fashion and food experiences/expectations that were previously exclusives to big city centers.

I keep reading people make this claim. I haven't found it to be even remotely true for the food my family is inclined to eat. Every time I've gone to visit hip small college towns for the last 5 years, I've eagerly sought out the talked-about eateries, and they were all... distinctly mediocre compared to NYC or Bay Area or LA food. You still can't find anything but Americanized Asian food, even the California-cuisine…

I’m honestly surprised so many people put Bay Area/SF food on the same scale as NYC and LA. It only makes sense when you consider top-tier fine dining (like, Michelin star(s)) IMO. For middle-tier dining I think SF and the Bay Area don’t even come close to either of those cities. In fact I think those hip young college towns are much better, in my experience. It’s just that it’s going to be a different set of foods: more barbecue, Mexican, Central European, soul food, and less asian/what I would call “California health” foods.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#384

Post by kilbuz »

ryandrake wrote: post #322
brogrammernot wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another poster said, companies aren’t going to risk lose talent in troves if they enact a work from office policy. When you got major companies like Twitter, google, Facebook, and others already saying WFH is a permanent option that’s put pressure on others to figure out how to make it work. Talent is needed at many, many companies and if the talent is a.) needed and b.) good enough the company will make “exceptio…

As someone who has worked both in the Bay Area and outside of it, I moved here because of the job market, not because of the salary. I would take a salary cut any day to move away, but I want to stay with my current company AND keep access to the SF Bay Area job market. Literally the only thing keeping me from listing my house right now and moving to a different area is that not enough Bay Area companies have committ…

Where are you thinking of moving? I live here for more than the job, so just wondering what other cities are on the radar.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#385

Post by swang720 »

kumarski wrote: post #379

San Francisco is rekt on so many levels and irrecoverable. Pensiontracker.org This is why I left: I’m bullish on the W2-pocalypse and bought Facebook, did you? Facebook twisted its earnings with W2pocalypse. Silently through the night W2’s are being slashed, this is front running the onerous taxes, fees, and small scale apocalypse that has been accumulating in California. Let me walk you through some metrics on Calif…

The whole point of a progressive tax system is to distribute wealth from the wealthy to the poor. A very small percentage of the population controls the vast majority of the wealth in this country. I'd argue that the wealthy (myself included) should be paying _more_ taxes.

With that said, in California, there's a lot of problems that can't be solved by simply throwing more money at it -- for instance, homelessness.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#386

Post by hardtke »

BurningFrog wrote: post #230
notherthrowaway wrote: post #154

I think people are asking the wrong questions. We know that people moving back in with their parents is up about 3 million due to COVID [1]. It would follow that studio apartments are the mostly likely to be rented by those same young people, thus the demand has dried up. The question we aren't asking is, what happens when the economy recovers and these people move out of their parent's homes? Will they go back to th…

Those factors are real, but they apply to dozens of big cities. They don't explain why rents in SF are falling more than anywhere else. To be fair, the article only says 31% is the most. If other cities are around 29-30%, forget what I said.

Rent surveys are usually heavily biased towards large buildings. SF has a ton of new development in currently moribund neighborhoods, so I suspect some of the massive drop is due to that being oversampled (Mission Bay, for instance). In the more desirable neighborhoods with lots of rent controlled places the price drops likely aren't as steep. My friend is trying to rent a condo in a desirable location and most people looking at it are moving within San Francisco, trying to get into the more established neighborhoods at a better price.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#387

Post by opportune »

colinmhayes wrote: post #315
lqet wrote: post #185

There is currently an article (in German) in the Frankfurter Allgemeine called "The Demise of San Francisco" [0] in which the possible reasons for this are discussed. One reason given (which I cannot verify as I don't live there) is: people are fleeing the city because it has become a terrible place to live: Quote from the article, Google translation: > Jayson Hill recently stopped by his old apartment. He didn't fee…

Do people actually care about seeing drug deals? what's the problem?

I agree it’s not a big deal but it does suck to see strung out people all around it, which tends to happen

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#388

Post by matchbok »

blululu wrote: post #172
barry-cotter wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, think on the margin. If there’s suddenly a lot of new luxury apartments then those looking for something cheaper have less competition from the deep pocketed. If they build so many luxury apartments that prices for them break that’s also a victory condition.

It's not so simple. The newer buildings were constructed at a much higher cost than the old ones and they are priced accordingly (and with less flexibility to go down in price). In spite of the price tag and the 'luxury' appellation, they really are not that nice (they tend to be small and the gym/pool that comes with the apartment is closed during Covid. Consequently there is a subtle structural shortage on apartmen…

The price is mostly the land underneath it. Fancy countertops don't make rent go high.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#389

Post by matchbok »

komali2 wrote: post #77
burlesona wrote: post #51

I would say the city being “closed” is the major driver. Among my group of ~40 coworkers, about 30 (including me) have left the city. As far as I know all but one were renting. Everyone who left gave the following rationale: - we can work remotely so move wherever or nomad now - SF is not very fun during the pandemic - WFH in my tiny apartment is much less enjoyable than when I was working in the office and didn’t sp…

I disagree that it's a demand problem alone. There was tons of new construction. If I wanted to, I could have moved to any neighborhood in the city on a whim... As long as I was willing to move into a brand new luxury apartment $4k studio. The demand was high for reasonably priced older units. "Just add new construction" doesn't work if all that gets built is luxury apartments.

Rents would be higher in the shitty apartments if those new ones weren't built.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#390

Post by 01100011 »

bgorman wrote: post #159
joshgachnang wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The WFH is a huge part. Just moved from a tiny 1 bed near downtown LA to a 3 bed place in Chicago with lower rent. My girlfriend and I both get our own offices, we have a yard, and enough places that are half open nearby that we're pretty happy.

Please report back in February after experiencing a -40 day :)

In the north central US, you have to stay indoors for a while because it's too cold. In the sunbelt, you have to stay indoors for a while because it's too hot. In CA, you have to stay indoors for a while because of the poor air quality.

Take your pic. CA folks seem to think the rest of the world is an inhospitable wasteland. Sure, CA is a bit more mild, but it's not perfect.

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