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San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

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Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#281

Post by almost_usual »

dyingkneepad wrote: post #263
asah wrote: post #189

Dating - the #1 app for cities.

But, as an outsider: is it the case for Bay Area? I mean, tech companies have way more males than females, I would expect that areas full of tech employees like the Bay Area would not be ideal for males trying to find partners due to the bigger competition. Is that the case? How is the male/female ratio in those areas?

Dating is horrible in the Bay Area unless you grew up in the Bay or don’t work in tech.

If you’re an outsider you’re considered a gentrifying techie so you already eliminated mostly anyone who is from the Bay. So now you have to date other outsiders and guess what, most of them work in tech. Most people who work in tech are male.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#282

Post by UncleOxidant »

bumby wrote: post #198
eagsalazar2 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF is great (really, just stop it haters!) and there will always be people who want to live there and prices will always be relatively high. However, for a long time SF has been a place of extreme price distortion because of low (~no) new construction and huge concentration of high paying jobs. The result is many many people feeling trapped there way beyond where it makes sense for their lives. If you are single and…

I’m curious as someone who has never lived in SV (only visited for work) but do you feel like there are certain areas that displaced SV gravitate towards and would eventually cause property in those areas to rise as well?

As someone who lived in SV 30 years ago... I moved to Portland. And yes, property values here have risen quite a bit since then. And many moved to Seattle where prices have risen even more.

Changing your question a bit: Given that prices here in Portland (and Seattle) are relatively high now (though not nearly so much as SV) what are some other lower cost alternatives on or near the west coast? Maybe Spokane. Possibly Olympia. Eugene? Though now we're getting into smaller urban areas.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#283

Post by whimsicalism »

almost_usual wrote: post #281
dyingkneepad wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, as an outsider: is it the case for Bay Area? I mean, tech companies have way more males than females, I would expect that areas full of tech employees like the Bay Area would not be ideal for males trying to find partners due to the bigger competition. Is that the case? How is the male/female ratio in those areas?

Dating is horrible in the Bay Area unless you grew up in the Bay or don’t work in tech. If you’re an outsider you’re considered a gentrifying techie so you already eliminated mostly anyone who is from the Bay. So now you have to date other outsiders and guess what, most of them work in tech. Most people who work in tech are male.

Psh I don't think that's true. I think you will have trouble if you basically match every single other tech person in every attribute - ie. if you lean really hard into the stereotypes.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#284

Post by hintymad »

Sounds a welcoming change to SF locals. The politicians and locals have been saying that techies were wreaking havoc in the city and that techies were gentrifying the city, dealing death blows to local culture. All these horrible horrible deeds will finally stop, right?

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#285

Post by [deleted] »

whimsicalism wrote: post #283
almost_usual wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dating is horrible in the Bay Area unless you grew up in the Bay or don’t work in tech. If you’re an outsider you’re considered a gentrifying techie so you already eliminated mostly anyone who is from the Bay. So now you have to date other outsiders and guess what, most of them work in tech. Most people who work in tech are male.

Psh I don't think that's true. I think you will have trouble if you basically match every single other tech person in every attribute - ie. if you lean really hard into the stereotypes.

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#286

Post by jeffbee »

jariel wrote: post #276
jeffbee wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with your thesis is "foreign" is a throwaway word that doesn't serve any non-inflammatory purpose. It is just as relevant that investors from Texas or Delaware are buying real estate, or, for that matter, SF landlords who live in Orinda.

Though I see your point, I don't really agree. 'Foreign' mostly means 'Foreign'. There just aren't a ton of Texans looking to buy up property in SF because 1) inequality, much as we may not think it's good in the US, is actually not that extreme and 2) places with extreme inequality and hyper concentrations of wealth tend to also be very corrupt places where private capital is likely to take flight. The 'non resident…

> There just aren't a ton of Texans looking to buy up property in SF

I mean, are we just ignoring REITs for the purposes of this thread? TPG and Dinerstein and other domestic interests (I only chose these two because they are from Texas, to directly address your point) have dumped tens of billions of dollars into SF property holdings.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#287

Post by watwut »

marssaxman wrote: post #273
watwut wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will go where the biggest salaries are, as they always did.

Not everyone follows that strategy! I certainly never have.

Not every single individual all the time, but mass of people generally moves that way. I dont mean it in derogatory "they are all shallow consumerist" way.

1.) There are too many people who dont have strong preference and thus go for salary because why not. Or follow friends. The higher salaries also go with bigger social status, often better negotiating position. There are people who do need money. And yes, there are many people who measure worth in salary too.

2.) Historically, people move that way. When programming turned out to be good job, students started to be way more interested in that. When you look at which majors students pick, they generally go for the ones that sound practical and earn money. Yes, some people go for antropology or history of art, but not nearly as many of them.

People moved to San Francisco in the first place because they followed opportunities. People moved out of Detroit because they followed opportunities.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#288

Post by xyhopguy »

geebee wrote: post #238
xyhopguy wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agreed -- portland is right there with very similar recreational activities and literally 25% the rent. why rent a 1b1b in SF when you can rent a mansion right on washington park for the same price?

That's a fair question, and the answer will depend on what people emphasize in life. I'll venture a firm answer for SF: Though SF is no New York, it is notably more urban than Portland. San Francisco is physically more strikingly beautiful than Portland, with magnificent views of the bay and ocean from the hills. Portland is surrounded by beautiful forests and parks, but so is SF - you can get from downtown SF into t…

You make excellent points -- the point related to culture is the most common I've heard from people outside Portland (particularly non-white people).

I think the only things you omitted are the differences in weather and the size of the cities.

- Portland is a fairly small city (especially inner portland) with a long history of anti-growth sentiment. The result is very rural agricultural areas _just_ outside of Portland.

- The weather patterns bring different wildlife and kinds of beauty. While the forests outside SF are quite pretty, they are also very different than the wet douglas fir forests up north. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder -- Portland also extends into the hills and provides famous views of Mt. Hood from the SW hills. The portland zoo for instance, is like going from a city into a rain forest.

The oregon coast is cold and rainy 95% of the year, not the most fun place to visit.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#289

Post by notherthrowaway »

sergefaguet wrote: post #279
temporalparts wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The magnitude of that demand will never reach the same height. I don't believe this; very few companies are okay with permanent remote work after the pandemic is over, even though they are very notable exceptions, eg Facebook. This also assumes the population of people interested in living in destination cities is constant, but it's been growing every year the last decade except this one. COVID and the possibilitie…

Many of my friends who own large companies are explicitly saying they will never rent offices again. As a founder/CEO this is an obvious move.

It's also possible that after the pandemic, when it's an option again, the youngest employees will prefer to work in offices. Won't the talent drive their choice ultimately?

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#290

Post by astura »

sergefaguet wrote: post #279
temporalparts wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The magnitude of that demand will never reach the same height. I don't believe this; very few companies are okay with permanent remote work after the pandemic is over, even though they are very notable exceptions, eg Facebook. This also assumes the population of people interested in living in destination cities is constant, but it's been growing every year the last decade except this one. COVID and the possibilitie…

Many of my friends who own large companies are explicitly saying they will never rent offices again. As a founder/CEO this is an obvious move.

I'd imagine that a group of employees who already work well together moving to remote work would be very different than hiring/training/integrating new remote employees.
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