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Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

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Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#211

Post by snazz »

jethro_tell wrote: post #180
kofejnik wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except that child seats are mostly safety theater, of course

Absolutely not the case. A 5 point harness is best. A car seat converts two or three point harness to a 5 point. Which is great, because those soft little bodies need as many touch points as is possible to spread the load of force. We know for a fact that the 5 point harness is the best, that is why race car drivers use 5 point harnesses instead of lap belts. The three point harness is a good compromise between the u…

I think the other reason that street cars don't use five-point harnesses (and why using them is illegal in most states) is that they immobilize your shoulders and neck too well, which makes rollovers more dangerous without a roll cage. You can't lean forward when the roof collapses, so you can be paralyzed.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#212

Post by outworlder »

LeonM wrote: post #70

A lot of readers here, and on Reddit seem to be misunderstanding the situation. The way I understand it, this car was taken in by a garage for 'seat installation'. I presume this means after market seats. The car disabled itself during installation. The OP assumed due to an anti-temper device, but it could have been any failure mode. Most modern cars with airbags will have sensors in the seats to disable some of the…

> The solution here was probably simple: bring the car outside

They did. Because the car did not have connectivity at the time it detected the issue, it went into full lockdown (judging by the comments, it kept trying for a while, couldn't connect, assumed the worst).

The car performed exactly the way it was programmed to perform. Tampering was detected. No connectivity was found. Lockdown. It will now have to be serviced by Ferrari, a local tech is not enough.

It is difficult to imagine a system that's just as secure but less inconvenient. If you open the door for local 'patches', then you open avenues of attack. Better to do a `rm -rf *` and blow up a firmware chip or two for good measure. Threat vectors are potentially more sophisticated for these cars, if there's a way to locally bypass the lockdown, it will be found.

The target demographic for these cars will not be inconvenienced much. As per the post, the owner went and got his Maserati.

So the takeaway for any Ferrari owners is: make sure there's connectivity if you are trying to perform any changes to the vehicle.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#213

Post by Sebb767 »

pdpi wrote: post #130
comeonseriously wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich people don't have babies? Heck, now-a-days they're the only ones can truly afford them.

If you have a Ferrari that’s probably not your only car, and you probably drive something more child-friendly when you need to carry your baby around.

Exactly what I wanted to say. In addition, it's like adding a trailer coupling to it - sure, you can do it and it has the power, but that's really not what this car is intended to do.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#214

Post by adriancr »

Scoundreller wrote: post #95
adriancr wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as the control systems are properly air-gapped you should be fine. (doesn't work for jeep apparently due to cost savings... https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-hig... ) won't stop someone physically breaking in and connecting something to the bus but the alarm should sound in that case.

Well, it's a 2-step process. It's hard to find a car without remote-unlock. From there, you have access to OBD. OBD port is +12, GND, TX and RX pin if you just want to connect to 1 bus. Shouldn't be too hard MITM that if you have physical access.

1. Remote unlock - you need to hack that... good luck...

2. ODB port requires physical access which means either alarm or 1... under pressure since owner may see you and call cops.

Now you can do something else on cheap asshole car manufacturers like Jeep and bluetooth/wifi hack media center then get on ODB via that because cheap idiots said its a good idea to have common bus.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#215

Post by adriancr »

rjsw wrote: post #41
adriancr wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as the control systems are properly air-gapped you should be fine. (doesn't work for jeep apparently due to cost savings... https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-hig... ) won't stop someone physically breaking in and connecting something to the bus but the alarm should sound in that case.

There have been cars where the bus connection to the ABS system was accessable in the wheel well.

Yeah, but you need physical access and unlocked car... you can cut the breaks too if you have that...

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#216

Post by t0mas88 »

u801e wrote: post #179
Igelau wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airbags are not designed with the bodies of children or infants in rear-facing carseats in mind. They're actually really dangerous for them - potentially lethal.

> Airbags are not designed with the bodies of children or infants in rear-facing carseats in mind. According to FMVSS 208, they're tested using an unbelted 50th percentile size male dummy. That's the reason they deploy with more force and are triggered at lower impact speed had they been designed with belted occupants of varying sizes in mind.

They are tested without belts to ensure the airbag doesn't kill idiots not wearing their belts. But on all modern cars they're designed to work together with the seatbelts.

If you unplug the cable at the bottom of a BMW seat (so it doesn't know the seat occupancy and belts) it will disable the airbag and show an airbag light.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#217

Post by mcguire »

LeonM wrote: post #70

A lot of readers here, and on Reddit seem to be misunderstanding the situation. The way I understand it, this car was taken in by a garage for 'seat installation'. I presume this means after market seats. The car disabled itself during installation. The OP assumed due to an anti-temper device, but it could have been any failure mode. Most modern cars with airbags will have sensors in the seats to disable some of the…

"This has nothing to do with 'smart' modes, remote hacking capability or disabling a car while in motion. The fact that the manufacturer can remote into their cars, does not automatically mean that the car is vulnerable to remote hacking. This is, in fact, a safety system that kicked in."

Uh, that should be the other way around: "The fact that the manufacturer cannot remote into their cars automatically means that the car is not vulnerable to [that form of] remote hacking."

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#218

Post by mcguire »

snazz wrote: post #211
jethro_tell wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not the case. A 5 point harness is best. A car seat converts two or three point harness to a 5 point. Which is great, because those soft little bodies need as many touch points as is possible to spread the load of force. We know for a fact that the 5 point harness is the best, that is why race car drivers use 5 point harnesses instead of lap belts. The three point harness is a good compromise between the u…

I think the other reason that street cars don't use five-point harnesses (and why using them is illegal in most states) is that they immobilize your shoulders and neck too well, which makes rollovers more dangerous without a roll cage. You can't lean forward when the roof collapses, so you can be paralyzed.

And it's hard to look towards the rear quarters.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#219

Post by sokoloff »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #144
lisper wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some do. https://www.ferrari.com/en-US/auto/gtc4lusso But what difference does that make? Why couldn't you put a car seat in the front passenger seat of a two-seater?

I think it’s illegal in some states, but I could be wrong.

I do not see any where that's the case.

https://saferide4kids.com/car-seat-laws-by-state/

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#220

Post by mcguire »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #144
lisper wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some do. https://www.ferrari.com/en-US/auto/gtc4lusso But what difference does that make? Why couldn't you put a car seat in the front passenger seat of a two-seater?

I think it’s illegal in some states, but I could be wrong.

I find it unlikely that, if you don't have a rear seat, you cannot legally carry a child.
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