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A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

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Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#271

Post by nezgar »

boomlinde wrote: post #269
bserge wrote: post #8

My eyes used to hurt a lot on CRTs. A few hours every day in front of one and I could not go outside without sunglasses, anything would make my eyes hurt. Everything was fine if I went a week without using a computer. With LCDs, that's not a problem anymore, and I like it.

This sensation may be caused by the flickering as the phosphor fades towards black before the screen is retraced. There are CRT monitors with long persistence phosphor that mitigate this, but it makes them unsuitable for motion video. My favorite concept is that of the Tektronix vector terminals. They trace the image to a long persistence phosphor as necessary and then retain the image without retracing it by constan…

Check out this demonstration of "Space War" on a PDP-1 using a radar long-persistance CRT: https://youtu.be/1EWQYAfuMYw

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#272

Post by sigstoat »

oblio wrote: post #257
sigstoat wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe if you spoke a different language you wouldn't be bothered? electrons can't travel very far in glass, or atmosphere, which is why the tube has a vacuum inside of it.

What does the language bit have to do with anything? I speak 2 foreign languages and I'm not a native English speaker. There is still the fact that the CRT display is very eye straining. Due to both the flicker and the way it works. My eyes would constantly be red after using them for a long time.

> What does the language bit have to do with anything? I speak 2 foreign languages and I'm not a native English speaker.

capitalizing "GUN" as though it mattered looked rather like hoplophobia.

> There is still the fact that the CRT display is very eye straining. Due to both the flicker and the way it works. My eyes would constantly be red after using them for a long time.

then say that, don't spew some garbage about electrons, when they're not making it past the glass.

nobody can (reasonably) question how you experience the CRT, but we can prove that the electrons have nothing to do with it.

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#273

Post by yardie »

dreamofkoholint wrote: post #90
yardie wrote: post #28

I used to have one of these (GDM-FW900) at an old job, a long time ago. They were great monitors for the time, top of the line. They weighed almost 300lbs, IIRC. And like all CRTs they can put out some heat. LCDs at the time still left much to be desired so VFX houses weren't rushing to replace them with inferior, at the time, technology. I remember running mine at a higher refresh rate. 75Hz and 100Hz was easily rea…

Yes! I think the ability to watch lower-res video (even 480p) on them and still have a decent picture is what I miss the most. It would be quite comical if the 300lb figure were correct, having lugged one around before. They hovered around 92lbs, though.

> It would be quite comical if the 300lb figure were correct, having lugged one around before. They hovered around 92lbs, though.

I might be mistaken then. There was also a Trinitron in the room, 30-something inches and required 3 people to pick up. The FW900 certainly felt like 300lbs, for a single person.

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#274

Post by boston_clone »

redler wrote: post #171
jiggawatts wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had 4K monitors on both my work laptop, my PC, and my TV for as long as that was possible. Nearly 7 years. This has cost me thousands and thousands of dollars. My logic is that when I use a computer, it's the monitor that I'm looking at. I don't sit next to the case staring at RGB LEDs. I can't "experience" a processor in any aspect except speed, and that's been perfectly acceptable for a decade. But I'll stare…

I feel this way not only about monitors, but chairs and shoes, and for the same reasons.

I've heard the saying as "spend good money on what separates you from the ground" - tires, shoes/boots, mattress, etc.

In this sense, it'd be "spend good money on what separates you from the virtual". That is, of course, our I/O devices :)

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#275

Post by intrasight »

In the early-90's I worked on prototypes for the new FAA air traffic control system. We sourced 2Kx2K CRTs from Sony that where the most incredible things to behold when used with hardware anti-aliased vector graphics. Almost 30 years ago. Where has the time gone?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitron

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#276

Post by alt219 »

agumonkey wrote: post #176
BearOso wrote: post #126

> On a CRT monitor, the screen is coated in millions of phosphor dots, with one red, green, and blue dot for every individual pixel. Not true. The number of dot triads is usually greater than the number of pixels. The distance between them is specified as the “dot pitch,” which serves as a physical resolution cap. In aperture grilles they’re continuous RGB vertical lines, with the dot pitch being the horizontal dista…

I loved the warmth of this blur. When I sold my old mitsubishi diamondtron, I tested it before shipping it. And watching an old divx made me feel all confused. It looked nicer .. warmer .. something.

This idea is expressed by the Brian Eno quote:

“Whatever you now find weird, ugly, uncomfortable and nasty about a new medium will surely become its signature. CD distortion, the jitteriness of digital video, the crap sound of 8-bit - all of these will be cherished and emulated as soon as they can be avoided. It’s the sound of failure: so much modern art is the sound of things going out of control, of a medium pushing to its limits and breaking apart. The distorted guitar sound is the sound of something too loud for the medium supposed to carry it. The blues singer with the cracked voice is the sound of an emotional cry too powerful for the throat that releases it. The excitement of grainy film, of bleached-out black and white, is the excitement of witnessing events too momentous for the medium assigned to record them.”

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#277

Post by agumonkey »

alt219 wrote: post #276
agumonkey wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I loved the warmth of this blur. When I sold my old mitsubishi diamondtron, I tested it before shipping it. And watching an old divx made me feel all confused. It looked nicer .. warmer .. something.

This idea is expressed by the Brian Eno quote: “Whatever you now find weird, ugly, uncomfortable and nasty about a new medium will surely become its signature. CD distortion, the jitteriness of digital video, the crap sound of 8-bit - all of these will be cherished and emulated as soon as they can be avoided. It’s the sound of failure: so much modern art is the sound of things going out of control, of a medium pushin…

I don't think that applies, it didn't feel like 'home at last' but really 'new made me forgot what can be'

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#278

Post by willis936 »

tuxracer wrote: post #139

Please don't let CRTs come back in style. After a while they tend to develop this headache inducing high pitched tone almost akin to tinnitus that is emitted constantly while they're powered on. It seems to be so high pitched most people cannot hear it at all but if you're one of the lucky few who can it can actually be really disruptive. Unfortunately it's also often loud enough to hear through doors, walls, etc...…

A horizontal scan rate of 16 kHz is audible. If CRTs were brought back today they very likely would not run NTSC. I wouldn’t worry about coil whine at 30+ kHz.

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#279

Post by willis936 »

bserge wrote: post #8

My eyes used to hurt a lot on CRTs. A few hours every day in front of one and I could not go outside without sunglasses, anything would make my eyes hurt. Everything was fine if I went a week without using a computer. With LCDs, that's not a problem anymore, and I like it.

While running my CRT monitor at 60 Hz recently I discovered that peripheral vision has better temporal acuity than foveal vision. Flicker is much more noticeable of things you’re not looking directly at.

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#280

Post by willis936 »

sevensor wrote: post #213

Many a year ago, in college, I was helping a friend move. He had a giant 21" CRT, which seemed like it weighed eighty pounds. It was the dead of night, in the middle of winter. We were walking on ice, carrying it together. (We both had late-90s computer nerd biceps.) He slipped, and with a great exertion I managed to grab his side and prevent a fall to the pavement. Neither of us had much in the world at the time, an…

Judging from the description, that may have been a G520: the 4:3 brother to the FW900. Truly something to carry into the future.
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