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Sale of amateur radio AMPRnet TCP/IP addresses raised $108M

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Re: Sale of amateur radio AMPRnet TCP/IP addresses raised $108M

#21
post #6

Anyone have pointers to the history of IP addresses becoming tradeable, as opposed to just being allocations and up to registrar to reallocate?

The pivotal event was the Nortel-Microsoft deal where a court overruled the IANA hippies and said that IP blocks look like property and quack like property so they must be property.

Re: Sale of amateur radio AMPRnet TCP/IP addresses raised $108M

#22
post #7
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that makes the current IPv4 address space total market cap ~$112 billion.

There are roughly 20 class 8s worth of special addresses, which reduces that by $10 billion or so.

I wish I could sell parts of my 127/8...

Re: Sale of amateur radio AMPRnet TCP/IP addresses raised $108M

#23
post #15
post #4

Is there any wonder that moving to IPv6 is delayed? Assuming an average $25/address, that's $400m/class A. Some of the organizations that own a class A: Apple, Ford, Softbank, Daimler, Prudential, Comcast. Softbank needs the money and the others wouldn't sniff at $300m+. Not sure how long the 100m odd addresses would last though.

Comcast started rolling out IPv6 across their network a long time ago. They hit 100% support on their broadband network in 2014. They run a lot of the own stuff on IPv6, such as on-demand video on their set-top boxes. I think any home modem/router that they support that did not support IPv6 hit EOL long ago and was replaced. There may be some class A owners who are trying to hold back IPv6 so they can make money off…

Comcast ran out of RFC1918 addressing to manage all the devices on their network (think cable modems/set top boxes/routers/everything) and had a massively segmented network setup.

They rolled out IPv6 because it flattened that network again, and instead of worrying about being in the right segment for reachability everything now gets a globally unique IP address. It massively simplified their internal management.

Re: Sale of amateur radio AMPRnet TCP/IP addresses raised $108M

#25
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Publishing the private key only allows for spoofing, not decrypting, unless you fail to use ephemeral Diffie-Hellman, which seems to be the default for most clients nowadays.

Yep, TLS with forward secrecy is not legal to use on ham RF links. Same with SSH.

Let's hope no IoT company is stupid enough to send customer data over this. Stuff like LoRa is very popular these days, but they are low bandwidth. Would not be surprising if a company decides that MVNO providers are too expensive and rolls their own communications infrastructure.

Re: Sale of amateur radio AMPRnet TCP/IP addresses raised $108M

#26
post #21
post #6

Anyone have pointers to the history of IP addresses becoming tradeable, as opposed to just being allocations and up to registrar to reallocate?

The pivotal event was the Nortel-Microsoft deal where a court overruled the IANA hippies and said that IP blocks look like property and quack like property so they must be property.

And thank goodness to! The only way these IP addresses are getting efficiently used (now) is there is an actual value and market for IPv4.

AWS charges $1/month or $12/year to sit on an IP address unused. This price / value pressure has freed up a TON of address space and pushed down pricing signals on a lot of ipv4 usage (ie, you can say is it worth $300M to buy a class A or maybe we should spend $200M to get IPv6 going.

Re: Sale of amateur radio AMPRnet TCP/IP addresses raised $108M

#27
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not over licensed RF links in most countries, unless you publish the private key.

nothing can be encrypted on amprnet?

It's a law governing the ham radio bands' usage in general. No encrypted/obscured communications. In fact, you have to regularly, unambiguously, and publicly identify yourself every ten minutes if I recall.

Re: Sale of amateur radio AMPRnet TCP/IP addresses raised $108M

#28
post #12

So we've now had several interesting cases of how breaking changes to something popular (even foundational) are made and how that works out: - Perl 5 to Perl 6. I think this was an unmitigated disaster. 20 years ago Perl 5 had a lot of users. I'm pretty sure it's completely irrelevant now; - Python 2 to Python 3. It's been almost 12 years and we still have Python 2. Personally I think a lot of bad decisions were made…

It's the new folks just having a wildly arrogant view of their new protocol. Ipv6 had everything and the kitchen sink thrown into it and made only token efforts at ipv4 co-existence. Plus the endless hype of ipv4 not being available. What they really meant was FREE ipv4 addresses won't be available, but between spending $5K to get a small block or re-doing your entire network to ipv6 -> plenty of people would rather pay the $5K!

The irony - despite seemingly unlimited ipv6 addresses my home internet is now a mess of randomly changing ipv6 addresses... I feel like I'm back in dynamic DNS / NAT days (ipv4 + port).

The s' and u' string prefix issue in python is an absolute embarrassment. They had a perfect / clear upgrade path that would allow stuff to still work with python 2. In their Unicode purity campaign they tried to force everyone to 3 by making it a total PIA to work with 2 still (such a similar story with ipv6).

Folks were like peace out for at least 5 years until they started bending a bit (also ascii handling for HTTP stuff got super annoying). Once they backed off it got a lot better on the transition.

Re: Sale of amateur radio AMPRnet TCP/IP addresses raised $108M

#29
post #17

This seems like a prudent decision on the part of the ARDC, and potentially a good boost to lots of interesting radio-adjacent projects. Hopefully they can maintain their organisational culture. Large amounts of money can be very damaging to organisations which aren't set up to handle it.

For their (and their mission's) sake, I hope they treat it like an endowment, amend their charter now to lock it up, and then only use the proceeds.

Re: Sale of amateur radio AMPRnet TCP/IP addresses raised $108M

#30
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, TLS with forward secrecy is not legal to use on ham RF links. Same with SSH.

Let's hope no IoT company is stupid enough to send customer data over this. Stuff like LoRa is very popular these days, but they are low bandwidth. Would not be surprising if a company decides that MVNO providers are too expensive and rolls their own communications infrastructure.

With few exceptions, all commercial use of amateur bands is prohibited, and licensing is by operator rather than by device. So for an IoT provider to run into this issue they'd have to have much larger problems on their hands as well.
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