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Removing Holocaust Denial Content

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Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#31
As a reminder, in an interview with Kara Swisher in 2018, Mark defended facebooks approach to free speech and light moderation. He said that FB does not wish to moderate certain kinds of content including Holocaust denials as he felt many people denying the Holocaust where not doing so maliciously or intentionally

Full interview: https://www.vox.com/2018/7/18/17575156/mark-zuckerberg-inter...

I’m glad to hear Facebook has come around on this policy but hearing the interview I was a bit floored and it definitely strengthen my resolve that Facebooks’ executives aren’t equipped to handle the complexity of the machine they have created. If Mark can get it wrong on a topic so obvious how can we trust the rest of their content moderation policies in every geo and world conflict.

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#32
post #4

Here is Facebook trying to desperately clean up in the hopes of appeasing the antitrust regulators.

Facebook has made a habit of pandering to conservatives. This is more likely a result of increased public scrutiny combined with internal employee revolt.

It’s also the least they could do, quite literally. Holocaust denialism is both extremely fringe ideologically, and extremely visible to rich westerners. It’s the easiest and lowest hanging fruit to show that they’re doing something. But I genuinely doubt that it signals a willingness to tackle either more difficult content like misinformation, nor tamp down on the coordinated behavior in less visible (to Americans) places where FB has been central to enabling genocide and other similarly bad things.

In short: it’s a good move, but I suspect it’s more PR than anything else.

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#33
post #4

Here is Facebook trying to desperately clean up in the hopes of appeasing the antitrust regulators.

This will do the opposite though I think - most of the "antitrust" arguments targeting Facebook seem to be upset that this type of content is being removed / Facebook (and YouTube, Twitter) have too much power in what we see/read.

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#35

Admirable move. I think Facebook (and all its properties), Twitter, and other hyper-connected social networks must show a healthy level of intolerance towards groups and ideologies that are beyond reason and recall, especially when those said groups are overtly and unmistakably intolerant themselves. This heavy-handedness isn't an encroachment on free speech but a necessary impediment to keep the spirit of free speec…

I don't see it linked off this article so I'll throw another relevant one here - "The Most Intolerant Wins"

See: https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

Additionally full of all kinds of flavorful anecdotes like:

> I once pulled a prank on a friend. Years ago when Big Tobacco were hiding and repressing the evidence of harm from secondary smoking, New York had smoking and nonsmoking sections in restaurants (even airplanes had, absurdly, a smoking section). I once went to lunch with a friend visiting from Europe: the restaurant only had availability in the smoking sections. I convinced the friend that we needed to buy cigarettes as we had to smoke in the smoking section. He complied.

edit: there are a bevy of sibling comments to this one, asking an important question: "When should I be intolerant of intolerance?" The answer explored in the article above is, "...the formation of moral values in society doesn't come from consensus. The most intolerant person (or minority) imposes virtue on others precisely because of that intolerance."

On a larger timescale, the most intolerant viewpoint will shift the views of others toward it. Recognizing this, a society can't tolerate a viewpoint which would be damaging to the core values that society purports to hold, or over the inevitable long-term it will destroy itself. This is why a society which values free speech must quash those elements inside it which will only accept censorship.

Also, "virtue" as quoted has a more specific meaning which is consistency with internal values. That's to say nothing of what those internal values are. They can be great or horrendous for society. Virtue is the willingness to sacrifice for them. Being intolerant is the mechanism by which civil rights advances, just as it can be used for evil.

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#36

The unchecked power Zuck and co have has global implications for every tiny decision they make. Who gave them this power? What makes them the best people to be making these decisions? Can we always trust them to get it right?

Facebook is a private entity. Facebook’s shareholders have given Mark Zuckerberg and his management team the power to manage the company as they see fit. If users disagree with the terms and conditions of using the site, they don’t have to use it.

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#37
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been shown that deplatforming and moving those nuts out of the mainstream social media channels reduce their influence. There was holocaust denier before Faceook, but their reach was much more limited. Remember that Facebook promotes groups and suggest you content that you're not following, so when holocaust deniers are part of the platform, some people with no exposure to the concept might start getting recomme…

Weird how the true evidence based comment is downvoted here. Regardless of your ideological priors the evidence we have shows deplatforming works to limit dis info spread. I have yet to hear an argument about why we should not deplatform holocaust deniers.

What evidence? There are no references in your post or the post you're replying to.

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#38
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn’t it? Do you have any examples, or should I just take your word for it?

Are you completely blind to the countercultures that have popped up completely unchecked because of social media bans?

Why do people fight against deplatforming if according to you it's actually beneficial for their cause?

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#39
post #10
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History 101: humanity doesn't learn from history

It learns something for 40-60 years before forgetting it again.

>It learns something for 40-60 years before forgetting it again

More like those who are DIRECTLY affected by the event MIGHT learn.

Those who hear about it don't learn because, "Ours is different."

It's like humans are hypocritical beings, most who can't tell that they are.

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#40

Admirable move. I think Facebook (and all its properties), Twitter, and other hyper-connected social networks must show a healthy level of intolerance towards groups and ideologies that are beyond reason and recall, especially when those said groups are overtly and unmistakably intolerant themselves. This heavy-handedness isn't an encroachment on free speech but a necessary impediment to keep the spirit of free speec…

How would you have them weigh in on the Armenian Genocide, Holodomor, or Tianenman?

Each of those conflicts has deniers of various levels, some of whom are states. And, if Facebook gets it wrong (and perhaps decides the Tianenman square massacre was a hoax by the West to discredit the CCP) - how should we respond then?

This is a company that was censoring pictures of mothers feeding their babies, but still has content promoting the use of bleach to cure Down's and autism. Do you really trust them to engage in censoring at all?

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