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A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

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Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#251

Post by 0-_-0 »

Terretta wrote: post #3

TL;DR: For gaming, because ‘input lag’. [In a CRT] the electron-to-photon exchange happens instantly. While CRTs do have some sources of lag —namely, the time spent buffering each video frame and scanning each line of the frame from top to bottom on the screen —those delays are on the order of microseconds. When you move your mouse or press a button on the keyboard, the response time is imperceptible... By contrast,…

>those delays are on the order of microseconds

That's wrong, on a 60Hz CRT it takes the beam 1/120th of a second to reach the center of the screen, which is an average lag of 8.3 milliseconds. There are LCDs with 9ms lag.

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#252

Post by matt-attack »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #154
imstate wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CRT monitors do have a faster response time and higher refresh rate (I've seen up to 640x480@480hz But you would be sacrificing fidelity for this "competitive advantage".

You might find this note[1] interesting to read. I would love to see a commercial off the shelf cathode ray tube (CRT) that could do 480 Hz, so please share with us a link if you can find it in your notes. A CRT monitor, with a refresh rate of 480 Hz, allows just 2 mS (2.083333 mS to be precise) for excitation of the phosphor. As you know, (here is a similar explainer [2]) the phosphor is excited by the arrival of el…

FYI the SI unit of the second is abbreviate with a lower case “s”. Only units named after humans have uppercase abbreviations.

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#253

Post by Kuinox »

tzs wrote: post #216
hvis wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like this? https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/age-related-heari... https://playback.fm/hearing-test and "gradual loss of sensitivity to higher frequencies with age is considered normal" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range )

I wish there was audiophile equipment for older people that took that into account. Headphones and speakers, say, that only go to 14 KHz instead of 20 KHz. By not needing to design for as wide a frequency range, they should be able to either make them less expensive, or more accurate, or both.

Capping the hertz won't make it cheaper or easier to produce...

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#254

Post by Kuinox »

cozzyd wrote: post #229
tzs wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there was audiophile equipment for older people that took that into account. Headphones and speakers, say, that only go to 14 KHz instead of 20 KHz. By not needing to design for as wide a frequency range, they should be able to either make them less expensive, or more accurate, or both.

I doubt most headphones can reproduce sounds above 14 kHz.

They can

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#255

Post by lwouis »

paulcole wrote: post #61
Sebb767 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For work, LCD is absolutely superior. Gaming - especially shooters -, however, are a totally different use-case: Refresh rate is absolutely necessary for quick reaction times, while something like readability is not as big of a factor (Games tend to use big and easy-to-read fonts). Of course, you still need some color quality to spot enemies, but it's very different from reading text for several hours.

> Refresh rate is absolutely necessary for quick reaction times This reminds me of weekend warrior bicyclists dropping $5k on components to save a few ounces of weight and go a tiny bit faster. Most people are average enough at video games (or whatever their hobby of choice is) that they’re still going to be average whether they have a CRT or an LCD (or whatever pricy pice of gear they “need”). Sure it’s fun to spend…

Drag a window around on your monitor. Can you read its title when it's moving?

This is what it's about: clarity in motion. You assume that average modern monitors are in the 95 percentile and suffering from diminishing returns from better refreshing technology. I disagree with that. Moving things on a modern display is far from being smooth. Look at VR. This field is heavily impacted by this fact. Look at the tablets and phones migrating to >60hz in the past 2 years.

Resolution in motion is an issue.

In terms of analogy, it is not about scraping nanoseconds in high-frequence trading for example, but more like moving your pen on your iPad and have the line not lag behind in a disturbing way.

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#256

Post by nottorp »

wdqwfdqwfqwf wrote: post #242
ashtonkem wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d recommend adding bias lighting to your monitor. It won’t make the monitor less bright, but it’ll light up the wall behind your monitor so there’s less of a contrast between the wall and your monitor, which reduces eye strain.

In the age of video conferences, this will also improve your appearance a lot . Soft, indirect light coming from behind the camera… you just build your own softbox.

I've been working from home for at least 15 out of the last 20 years. Never did a single video conference.

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#257

Post by oblio »

sigstoat wrote: post #177
oblio wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides that (I have the same problem), there's the obvious "electron GUN pointed at your face/eyes" problem.

maybe if you spoke a different language you wouldn't be bothered? electrons can't travel very far in glass, or atmosphere, which is why the tube has a vacuum inside of it.

What does the language bit have to do with anything? I speak 2 foreign languages and I'm not a native English speaker.

There is still the fact that the CRT display is very eye straining. Due to both the flicker and the way it works. My eyes would constantly be red after using them for a long time.

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#258

Post by hnick »

andrewzah wrote: post #71

CRTs are still heavily used in the smash bros. melee gaming community as the nintendo gamecube natively outputs to 480i. Using a modern 720p+ display involves upscaling, which causes latency. This latency is wildly inconsistent across tvs, which makes competitive play untenable. There are monitors with extremely low response time (~1ms), BenQ was the go-to for a while. It used to be that the cost was prohibitive, but…

I was going to mention this. I've heard stories about players scouring the streets on council cleanup day in the hopes to snag an old CRT.

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#259

Post by jiggawatts »

gknoy wrote: post #236
coldtea wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My logic is that when I use a computer, it's the monitor that I'm looking at. Sure. But that doesn't get over the law of diminishing returns. It might not be 4K that, but would you buy 8K or 16K because "it's the monitor I'm looking at", when the only thing it does is waste CPU/GPU, resources, and battery -- for angular resolution lost to the human eye anyway?

>for angular resolution lost to the human eye anyway? Personal experience tells me that the resolution difference between 4k and lower resolutions (for the same size screens) are Very Noticeable on my 27 monitors. (I have one 4k and one 1440p.) Text is noticeably easier to read on the higher resolution monitor. I think this is primarily because we sit much closer to monitors than to TVs. (I don't think I can tell whe…

I've seen an 8K monitor in person.. and... wow. It's like a glossy magazine that can move. It's absolutely astonishing how much additional detail you can see in fonts: subtle differences that are totally lost in normal rendering suddenly come to life. Each font has a unique personality that's just lost in the clunky rendering to a few dozen(!) pixels of a mere 4K display.

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#260

Post by cyrialize »

andrewzah wrote: post #71

CRTs are still heavily used in the smash bros. melee gaming community as the nintendo gamecube natively outputs to 480i. Using a modern 720p+ display involves upscaling, which causes latency. This latency is wildly inconsistent across tvs, which makes competitive play untenable. There are monitors with extremely low response time (~1ms), BenQ was the go-to for a while. It used to be that the cost was prohibitive, but…

I have a tiny Sony trinitron (I think) CRT. The screen is the size of a banana diagonally. I specifically have it around just for practicing SSBM.

Many people nowadays do just use their PC with a good monitor. There are a ton of hacks that you can do to reduce the lag that you get from a monitor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6B4t5fCEbQ

The video above is from Hax, a prominent smasher who has been part of the SSBM scene for a very long time.

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