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A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

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Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#61

Post by paulcole »

Sebb767 wrote: post #57
indymike wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a long time the big advantage of LCD was just size and energy use. You lost a lot of the clarity with the conversion from analog VGA or SVGA signal in devices that predated DVI and HDMI connectors. It would be really hard to trade in my 28" 4k display for any CRT I've ever had.

For work, LCD is absolutely superior. Gaming - especially shooters -, however, are a totally different use-case: Refresh rate is absolutely necessary for quick reaction times, while something like readability is not as big of a factor (Games tend to use big and easy-to-read fonts). Of course, you still need some color quality to spot enemies, but it's very different from reading text for several hours.

> Refresh rate is absolutely necessary for quick reaction times

This reminds me of weekend warrior bicyclists dropping $5k on components to save a few ounces of weight and go a tiny bit faster.

Most people are average enough at video games (or whatever their hobby of choice is) that they’re still going to be average whether they have a CRT or an LCD (or whatever pricy pice of gear they “need”).

Sure it’s fun to spend money on your hobby but to say it’s “absolutely essential” is a little silly.

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#62

Post by gmadsen »

imhoguy wrote: post #58
nottorp wrote: post #4

I have a different problem with LCDs. I still think they're too bright. With a CRT you could set everything to white on black and you had almost no light coming out of the screen. Also brightness meant brightness and you could turn it way down for when working in dim light or darkness. Of course i'm talking about text work here. Maybe when OLED monitors become affordable we'll go back to monitors that aren't basicall…

I am still waiting for a decent size e-ink screen (22"+) without backlight which should be enough for low-FPS stuff like backend coding, slack, terminal and text content web pages. Existing solutions are still too small - Dasung and Onyx Boox are 13.3" with HDMI.

i have never heard of an e-ink screen with fast enough refresh to be viable for coding

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#63

Post by ddingus »

paulcole wrote: post #61
Sebb767 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For work, LCD is absolutely superior. Gaming - especially shooters -, however, are a totally different use-case: Refresh rate is absolutely necessary for quick reaction times, while something like readability is not as big of a factor (Games tend to use big and easy-to-read fonts). Of course, you still need some color quality to spot enemies, but it's very different from reading text for several hours.

> Refresh rate is absolutely necessary for quick reaction times This reminds me of weekend warrior bicyclists dropping $5k on components to save a few ounces of weight and go a tiny bit faster. Most people are average enough at video games (or whatever their hobby of choice is) that they’re still going to be average whether they have a CRT or an LCD (or whatever pricy pice of gear they “need”). Sure it’s fun to spend…

When one craves that trance or flow state possible in gaming, average or not, the low latency may be essential.

Relative to elite players, it won't matter.

In terms of the experience? It really can be.

We all get old. Enjoying what potential we have on the way through can be worth a little money.

"Need" and "want" can be blurred here and it is OK.

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#65

Post by elvis70 »

bserge wrote: post #8

My eyes used to hurt a lot on CRTs. A few hours every day in front of one and I could not go outside without sunglasses, anything would make my eyes hurt. Everything was fine if I went a week without using a computer. With LCDs, that's not a problem anymore, and I like it.

It was impossible for me to spend 8 hours a day in front of a screen until the end of the 90s. I still have a 1999 CRT monitor and I don't have that problem. This feeling of pain in my eyes is something I wouldn't want to experience anymore. There are times when I miss my dot matrix printer.

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#66

Post by andrewzah »

everdrive wrote: post #38
ptx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They took up a huge amount of desk space though, which was quite inconvenient. But perhaps they could be made flatter?

The obsession with device thinness and smallness is a cancer. Engineering gets put into the wrong efforts, and cost, efficiency, and repair-ability are all damaged. Modern lcd screens seem to be the worst of this. The screen itself is quite thin, but then the base, and the cables coming out the back mean it’s still effectively 3-7 inches “thick.” The thinness accomplishes nothing, and has made the device worse.

I used to have around 10 CRTs at a given moment in my collection, 5 of which were usually in my trunk, ready to go at a given moment.

The weight made transporting them absolutely horrendous. I find it ridiculous to think that it's not worth spending time, money, and research on smaller form factors if possible.

I will take the compactness and weight of a modern LCD over a CRT any day.

The only reason I had those CRTs was the smash bros gaming community needed them, as the nintendo gamecube natively outputs to 480p. Which makes modern displays untenable due to their upscalers, which take different amounts of time to upscale. (480p) CRTs are consistent.

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#67

Post by officialjunk »

gmadsen wrote: post #62
imhoguy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am still waiting for a decent size e-ink screen (22"+) without backlight which should be enough for low-FPS stuff like backend coding, slack, terminal and text content web pages. Existing solutions are still too small - Dasung and Onyx Boox are 13.3" with HDMI.

i have never heard of an e-ink screen with fast enough refresh to be viable for coding

what is your minimum refresh rate needed for coding?

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#68

Post by imhoguy »

gmadsen wrote: post #62
imhoguy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am still waiting for a decent size e-ink screen (22"+) without backlight which should be enough for low-FPS stuff like backend coding, slack, terminal and text content web pages. Existing solutions are still too small - Dasung and Onyx Boox are 13.3" with HDMI.

i have never heard of an e-ink screen with fast enough refresh to be viable for coding

I think both of these are usable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NozoRkE0DTo they use various optimizations to avoid full panel refresh. Here is coding example with Dasung although it is hard to judge scrolling quality https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO0Qzuw18q8

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#69

Post by smusamashah »

officialjunk wrote: post #67
gmadsen wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have never heard of an e-ink screen with fast enough refresh to be viable for coding

what is your minimum refresh rate needed for coding?

Scrolling would be painful on e-ink

Re: A 20-year-old CRT monitor can be better than a 4K LCD (2019)

#70

Post by [deleted] »

Infernal wrote: post #34
cmurphycode wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried using option-shift-[f1] to subdivide? or the brightness slider in the settings.

Interestingly, on my early 2015 13" MacBook Pro, the very lowest brightness setting seems to have no change in brightness on those last three subdivisions. Once I get down to one full "block" of brightness, option-shift-F1 moves the slider down in quarter-block increments but the screen gets no (perceptibly) dimmer until it shuts off entirely. All the other brightness settings have perceptible changes in brightness a…

[deleted]
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