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The Mostly True Story of Vanilla Ice

theringer.com

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Re: The Mostly True Story of Vanilla Ice

#61
post #52

I read this and enjoyed it, especially the parallels for me as the music producer who found the first popular white girl rapper: "Kreayshawn" and produced her first few tracks ("Bumpin Bumpin", "Gucci Gucci", etc).. After working with lots of artists over the years I tend to just think of them as instruments in an overall track, and their stories and narrative of the timelines is unreliable at best. I would really ha…

Can you share some interesting behind the scenes stories of anything you've been a part of in the music scene for us HN fans :)

Yeah I wish I could say some juicy stuff.. I think I might after reading this article, but not in the comments. Maybe I will write about it on my future blog.

I worked with an artist called DMX Krew, in the UK a lot. He is like an old school(not so much to me, as I am 35) electro music producer/performer. And when my tracks with Kreayshawn popped off I had different fun opportunities for a bit. VIce Italy flew me to Milan to DJ a party for 400 euros, and the marketing was that I was DMX's producer (like the rapper DMX), which I was not.. But I just sort of pretended to be, and I during my set I would randomly drop in songs by DMX just to get people excited.

Re: The Mostly True Story of Vanilla Ice

#62
post #12

> It was the winter of 1987-88 in South Dallas, or maybe it was the following summer … Tussles were frequent, and being Texas, half the club came strapped. Texas did not pass its concealed-carry law until 1995. In fact, in 1991 its legislature considered a gun-control law! Great writing, but I wonder at how accurate the rest of the details are.

Not sure where you're from, but in Texas carrying firearms is a cultural thing. People didn't wait until concealed carry was passed to start holding. Concealed carry in Texas legalized something people were already doing

In the streets of most big Texas cities, you can just go ahead and assume about half of the people are holding.

Further, concealed carry doesn't cover bars/night clubs. If a place derives more than 51% of its revenue from the sale of on-site consumption of alcohol, you can't carry no matter what license you have.

That's ignoring the fact that a not insignificant amount of people (especially Black young men) in South Dallas are formerly incarcerated or in some form of the justice system. Especially during the late 80's during the height of the crack epidemic. So they're not legally allowed to carry anyway.

Re: The Mostly True Story of Vanilla Ice

#63
post #12

> It was the winter of 1987-88 in South Dallas, or maybe it was the following summer … Tussles were frequent, and being Texas, half the club came strapped. Texas did not pass its concealed-carry law until 1995. In fact, in 1991 its legislature considered a gun-control law! Great writing, but I wonder at how accurate the rest of the details are.

The only detail I found questionable (and have the knowledge to do so) is the labelling of Forest Lane as "South Dallas". That's pretty much as far north as you can get in Dallas, notwithstanding a weird chunk that goes north near Carrollton/Farmers Branch.

Yes, and back then that would have been way north Dallas. Forest lane in the 80s was for sure the biggest "cruising" street in the entire metroplex. Funny to think of Vanilla Ice being there, with people listening to Van Halen, Def Leppard....and then this dude with sculpted hair in track suits rapping.

Re: The Mostly True Story of Vanilla Ice

#64
My favorite line in all of this is when he is getting grilled by Arsenio Hall about his background and says “It doesn’t matter where you come from, it’s where you’re at.”

I think that critics in the US are too obsessed with the idea of “authenticity”. Authenticity can be a useful device for quality control, and many authentic things are truly great. But it’s also often used to make people feel guilty for enjoying things which are inauthentic, which is really unfortunate.

Vanilla Ice is a talented guy, and “Ice Ice Baby” brought me a ton of joy in my youth. He really did not deserve the amount of ridicule that he received in the popular media.

Re: The Mostly True Story of Vanilla Ice

#65
> Invited on The Arsenio Hall Show, Ice walked blithely into the lion’s den... It remains a brutal interview to watch. You can practically see Ice’s career leave his body....

Way to exaggerate! The interview was very cordial, considering how much hate the guy was getting at the time.

Completely unrelated, but want to watch a brutal interview? Check Cathey Newman interviewing Jordan Peterson (who still managed to come out relatively unscathed): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54

Re: The Mostly True Story of Vanilla Ice

#66

My favorite line in all of this is when he is getting grilled by Arsenio Hall about his background and says “It doesn’t matter where you come from, it’s where you’re at.” I think that critics in the US are too obsessed with the idea of “authenticity”. Authenticity can be a useful device for quality control, and many authentic things are truly great. But it’s also often used to make people feel guilty for enjoying thi…

“Authenticity” is and has always been a successful method of "Tribe Security". Where in largely white Rock & Roll, it is social suicide to "sell out" by licensing one's music for commercial jingles; in Hip Hop this is called "getting paid" and treated as "knowing one's power and position". Authenticity really is knowing when to exhibit the expected Tribe Signaling. Having knowledge of a Tribe's nonverbal signaling enables one to infiltrate any social group lacking formal security.

Re: The Mostly True Story of Vanilla Ice

#67
post #23

That's a long article - anyone want to take a stab at tl;dr?

Vanilla had just as much if not more street cred than other white rappers, but due to bad timing and worse marketing he got skewered as "fake" and that nuked his career.

Also he was a great dancer, but just an okay rapper.

Re: The Mostly True Story of Vanilla Ice

#68
A few thoughts here:

re: Chuck D and Ice T(as well as J Prince/Rapalot) wanting to sign VI. I think it speaks to the business acumen of Chuck D and Ice T as well. They knew that at that time to truly break through they needed a hip hop elvis and they were thinking of who that would be.

re: media hit pieces Sidebar, it also speaks to how much power the media can have over someone when they aim their power at you. The Dallas Morning News article was a hit piece that may or may not have been justified.

I was around 14-15 at the time, I was hugely into hip hop back then and while I wont lie and say Ice Ice baby was a bad song I think the rest of the album was largely forgettable. Ice Ice Baby definitely captured the vibe going on in music at the time. The sample era was still figuring out the rules and I think the Biz Markie "Thou shalt not steal" ruling had yet to happen...

which brings me to my next point: Credit to the article for (correctly) pointing out the ridiculousness of 3rd bass using "sledgehammer" to back the track that makes fun of the song using "under pressure". I guess the key difference here is that 3rd bass probably licensed the sample to prevent litigation, but that probably wasnt because 3rd bass thought of that. The labels knew when they needed to clear a sample, I think SBK thought they may be able to get away with it until they sold 10 million copies...

re: appropriation The article points out that this was one of the first large scale reactions to cultural appropriation. In fairness to Vanilla Ice, he was a young kid that had something huge happen to him so he "trusted" the record label and the marketers to do right by him. They didnt.(and usually dont). Had Vanilla Ice dressed more like he did in the Ice Ice Baby Video he would have caught less flak for sure. MC Search (to me anyway) was the other side of the same coin to me and just as ridiculous. He mimicked the look of a B-Boy just as extremely as Vanilla Ice mimicked MC Hammer. They were both ridiculous, absurd even. Neither one of them were authentic, and I still think MC Search is guilty of it to this day.(seen some interviews, hes mellowed but still...) Also take into consideration how Russel Simmons signed 3rd bass to replace the beastie boys. I think that probably didnt work out how he thought as 3rd bass never really sold huge numbers. Pete Nice never really got too deep in the appropriation, and to me seems like he just was a dude that appreciated the art and tried to contribute. 3rd bass was a label creation as Pete Nice and MC Search werent really friends at all. I think Pete Nice left hip hop to run a sports memorabilia store or something like that.

I think there is a new wave of the same problem (As was mentioned in the article) with people like Post Malone.

Fame is a weird road to navigate, and Im not sure everyone makes it to the other side without some scars. Vanilla Ice certainly has his share. He also has done some boneheaded things, but it seems he may be ok after all. the Vanilla Ice project and holding on to most of his money point to some sort of acumen there. I also think he is finally ok with being "that guy" and owning his ridiculousness. When that happens what other people say cant really get to you. His story could have ended up way differently.

Re: The Mostly True Story of Vanilla Ice

#69

'The question of selling out is so obsolete that Travis Scott—who never met a beat, ad-lib, or nickname that he couldn’t steal—can do a nihilistically shameless cross-promotional deal with McDonald’s. And rather than catch flak for partnering with a soulless corporate behemoth, millions of teenagers treat his pseudo Happy Meal like the holy grail'. Great article, Ice could have been the show bizzy Elvis of Hip Hop wi…

Comparing anyone to Mr Glitter comes with some less-than-savoury baggage. Instead, here's a link to an article describing the second careers of ten other famous musicians - https://www.considerable.com/work/second-careers/famous-musi...

Gary Glitter was wildly popular in the UK top 10 and was subsequently very big on the university circuit. He was then publicly disgraced and imprisoned, but that was well after the period I mentioned. I am not a fan of cancelling people's creative output because of criminality. The work - by many showbiz people - stands.

Re: The Mostly True Story of Vanilla Ice

#70

I read this and enjoyed it, especially the parallels for me as the music producer who found the first popular white girl rapper: "Kreayshawn" and produced her first few tracks ("Bumpin Bumpin", "Gucci Gucci", etc).. After working with lots of artists over the years I tend to just think of them as instruments in an overall track, and their stories and narrative of the timelines is unreliable at best. I would really ha…

Appreciate your perspective, and thanks so kindly for your post. As a classically trained vocalist, that perspective makes me feel you are not the kind of person who I would like to work with; or a person I could When I produce my own music, I have the privilege of treating my own vocals as...somewhat 'just another instrument' is a blessing and a curse. I often end up doing anywhere from 30-50 takes for a verse, and…

i meant when I am in my daw or groovebox
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