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Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

blog.scottlogic.com

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Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#151
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the gallery! I'm surprised there aren't more integrated pointing devices (like TrackPoints).

I wanted to build a custom keyboard with a track point but couldn’t find any suppliers. Does anybody know of any?

There's the Tex Yoda and other Tex keyboards -- I suppose if nothing else there's buying one of those keyboards and repurposing the TrackPoint and its PCB if necessary?

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The makers of the Ergodox EZ (it's open source so you can get Ergodoxes from various sources as well as build your own) also make the Moonlander, which is a step closer to the Kinesis in shape. I looked into it as a potentially more mobile alternative to the Kinesis but decided to stick with the Kinesis. I'm hoping if my current keyboard ever dies Kinesis will have a new QMK-based version that comes in two halves, or…

> the Moonlander, which is a step closer to the Kinesis in shape Just took a look, doesn't really look much difference. I mean the 3d curvature of the keys, your hand is kinda in a semi circular channel. I just find it comfortable, especially to reach the furthest rows of keys from the home row. Its not a huge deal, just something I like about the Kinesis. I also use the Kinesis foot pedals -- does something similar…

You'd have to mod the case and do some wiring, but since the ErgoDox is just a Teensy running QMK you could in principle hack it. I think all you would have to do is find an unused pin on the uC and then wire that pin to the foot pedal and recompile the firmware.

But the only real advantage to the ErgoDox over the Kinesis in my opinion is that it runs QMK: the key-wells are more ergonomic and the thumb cluster is better positioned because of the slight vertical height difference. And if you get a Stapelberg converter[1] PCB made, it doesn't look that bad to add.

[1] https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2013-03-21-kinesis_custo...

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#155

I use a slightly configured Kinesis Advantage 2 and colemak as my keyboard layout (I used to make the Kinesis do the colemak, but now its just qwerty and the OS handles colemak). I find typing on it extremely comfortable. I've also found these beneficial: https://www.mycarpaltunnel.com/ I like Ergodox, especially because of their super flexible configuration, but I dislike the flatness of the keyboard compared to the…

The makers of the Ergodox EZ (it's open source so you can get Ergodoxes from various sources as well as build your own) also make the Moonlander, which is a step closer to the Kinesis in shape. I looked into it as a potentially more mobile alternative to the Kinesis but decided to stick with the Kinesis. I'm hoping if my current keyboard ever dies Kinesis will have a new QMK-based version that comes in two halves, or…

Given the rapid development of the hobbyist landscape from 3D printing, I suspect it will only be a matter of time before Kinesis comes out with a split design.

Although the Kinesis is actually very easy to mod, and there are quite good resources on replacing the microcontroller with something that can run QMK. If you're not familiar, here's a link[1] to a PCB design that will route the ribbon cables to a Teensy.

[1] https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2020-07-09-kint-kinesis-...

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#156
post #144

I own ergodox and it has the same issue as the most of the "enthusiast" keyboards (dactyl/manuform, ergodox, plank) - it hates non-english layouts. Typing in Russian is a struggle. The common answer is to remap the keys to double function etc - but this is a bad workaround. I want something with more columns. I get the "limited finger movement" idea, but sometimes it is necessary. I don't want to do crazy customizati…

oh? They added full support to non-english characters some time ago. Maybe take a look in the flashing website tool?

For me, it took a laptop with a full non-english keyboard that enabled me to program it to whatever I wanted to (e.g. "this key is _press laptop localized key here_ that non-english char") but once programmed, it works as expected.

Granted, my non-english characters are still in latin characters though.

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#157

I'm keeping a gallery (just for a quick overview) of ergonomic keyboards. It might be useful for others interested in this thread. There's a lot of options, from something you can order from a large retailer, to a kit to solder yourself, to just plans to download. https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/

You mention "Ergodox" instead of "Ergodox EZ". Ergodox is an open-source design that anyone can make. Ergodox EZ is an implementation of the design by one particular company.

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangential: I find using an actual (Mac) laptop, with the trackpad in front of the keyboard, to be very ergonomic. This is on a desk with a screen attached, so I’m not staring down at the laptop screen. Rather than the hand sweeping all the way over to the right to reach the mouse, it just twists a little towards the trackpad. The palms never really leave their rests. I don’t use it like this a lot, but when I do I e…

In an interesting demonstration of how all ergonomics is personal, my use of a Mac laptop and the repeated wrist rotation from the trackpad to they keyboard and back led to RSI. That said, I love the Mac trackpad and it has great ergonomic potential, I just personally have to use it with a split keyboard with the halves on either side of the laptop. That way the motion of moving from trackpad to keyboard and back is…

Huh, interesting. I already bend my arm at the elbow when using the trackpad. However, I find the finger position painful if I'm using the trackpad intensively for a while (think lots of scrolling during random web browsing).

A few months ago I have discovered the joys of using a trackball and I think a great setup would be to fit the that between the halves of a split keyboard. I suppose a Kinesis Freestyle or similar could accommodate that.

That being said, even though I absolutely love the mbp trackpad and find the keyboard ok-ish (I have an older, 2013 model), I don't like using it with an external screen. It feels somehow off.

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangential: I find using an actual (Mac) laptop, with the trackpad in front of the keyboard, to be very ergonomic. This is on a desk with a screen attached, so I’m not staring down at the laptop screen. Rather than the hand sweeping all the way over to the right to reach the mouse, it just twists a little towards the trackpad. The palms never really leave their rests. I don’t use it like this a lot, but when I do I e…

I've always wished for an external trackpad and keyboard combo in this layout, basically a Macbook without the screen to use with your monitor setup. Reaching to the side for the trackpad frequently seems much slower and less ergonomic. Plus the fixed relative layout of the trackpad and keys helps orient myself.

> I've always wished for an external trackpad and keyboard combo in this layout, basically a Macbook without the screen

I'm pretty sure I saw something like that from lenovo. I can't find it anymore, all I got is this:

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboa...

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#160

Quite the rabbit hole and definitely worth the read :-) This seems a good place to bring up an odd experience of mine. I've had carpal tunnel for decades but no longer get many flare ups. After trying numerous keyboards, the solution turned out to be using Apple's Magic Keyboard and whatever their huge trackpad is called. The key for me seems to be low key travel, a smallish keyboard (to avoid any stretching), and av…

I have two: one for each hand. I (used to) have to use my laptop a lot (meetings, traveling), so it didn't work for me to have a different keyboard at my desk. Then when I got stuck at home, I dug out my old kinesis but it was just too much effort to press those keys, and the cursor keys were just too far away. I could feel the muscles in my arms complaining. But the pronation and ulnar deviation was a pain, so I bou…

> I'm still using the magic mouse because I found click-drag with the trackpad to be shitty. Is there a trick to that?

Not sure how the magic mouse works, but there's "drag hold" on the trackpad. You "double tap and hold". Tap once, and on the second tap you don't lift your finger off the trackpad, but start moving it around.

Conveniently located outside the trackpad settings, in Settings -> Accessibility -> Pointer control -> Trackpad options -> Enable dragging. https://imgur.com/a/oSrPyDB

You may have to activate tapping (as opposed to pressing the trackpad).

"Without drag lock" actually does lock, but only for a short time. "With" locks until you click again. "Three finger" is new to me, never tried it.

edit: screenshot

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