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Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

asia.nikkei.com

21–30 of 281 posts

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Using Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, etc. is optional. Nobody has to use these platforms. Nobody has to use these platforms, unless everyone else is using these platforms. Have you ever been that one person who is being regularly invited to an event but you aren't in a Messenger or Whatsapp group to receive it? Pretty soon you stop receiving invitations. This is actually worse in the case of Whatsapp outside America,…

> Nobody has to use these platforms, unless everyone else is using these platforms. No, even if everybody else is using those platforms, it does not force you in anyway to use them. It's still always up to you.

In theory, you're right. In actuality, unless you have the clout to make others jump through your hoops to contact you, they won't.

Example: Donald Knuth doesn't use email. This works fine for him because of his reputation, but if I were to quit email and social networks, I'm not influential enough that people would send me snail mail.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#22
Isn't it obvious how the widespread knowledge that the government can read everything you do online - your FB posts, your emails, your texts - contributes to the erosion of trust in government and institutions?

As an anecdote, I went to DEFCON last year. I was at a blackjack table and surrounded by midwestern salt-of-the-earth types. I had my badge on which flashed lights, and someone asked if I was "one of those computer hackers" and I said Yes (of course). Then they asked me if it was true that the government could read everything they did on their computer! The very first question! I hesitated, and said yes! The government can indeed read everything they do online! It made the whole table silent.

The mainstream media keeps publishing these hand-wringing articles about how America's faith in institutions has diminished, as if Trump did it all. I argue that the total lack of privacy and argument from the Department of Justice that any privacy is akin to terrorism / criminal behavior kills society more than what they think they protect.

Is not privacy a fundamental American principle? What the hell happened?

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#23
post #22

Isn't it obvious how the widespread knowledge that the government can read everything you do online - your FB posts, your emails, your texts - contributes to the erosion of trust in government and institutions? As an anecdote, I went to DEFCON last year. I was at a blackjack table and surrounded by midwestern salt-of-the-earth types. I had my badge on which flashed lights, and someone asked if I was "one of those com…

9/11 and the “you’re with us, or you’re with the terrorists” mentality happened.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that is accurate. Just as with end-to-end encrypted messaging apps, they would have to use targeted 0-day exploits to access the cameras and microphones in people’s homes. End-to-end encryption doesn’t protect the social graph. They already know who is talking to who; they just don’t know what is being said.

They are already subpoena'ing alexa and Google home recordings, Android and iPhone location data, cell tower pings etc. I don't think we're far away from court ordered wire taps to compel Google to enable the cameras and microphones.

Any such court orders would be sealed indefinitely as well. In 5-10 or so years I predict we will have another Snowden, describing that the NSA has been running a ring -1 process on every single Intel Management Engine co-processor in the entire world.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#26
All they have to do is create a "user analytics package" which happens to read client side text. We would never know if it was implemented or not.

Alternatively they can look at existing analytics packages and look at the dependency graph and take over one of those to capture the screen and read info.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#27
Frictionless E2EE at scale is cancerous on society and the FYEV/JP alliance know this all too well.

As this subject has been iterated over many times, will keep this comment short.

* FB deploying frictionless, unbreakable encryption at scale makes the job of law enforcement harder, and makes it easier for less sophisticated criminals to get away with conspiracies (a word which, by the way, simply refers to two or more people secretly collaborating on criminal activity).

* As math cannot be stopped, more sophisticated criminals, as well as those with general concerns about privacy from big brother can still use their own open source tools.

Long before the internet, comms via telephony were anything but secure. We’ve tested the waters post-Snowden with E2EE which likely resulted in numerous secret case studies on the effect E2EE has on an orderly society.

* Don’t bring gizmos into your home if you want a modicum of privacy at home

* FB offering a frictionless, global private network out of reach of law enforcement isn’t a constitutional right. We can still gather in a home, use strong encryption when it matters (in more extreme cases, on an offline device, with write-only outgoing media transported via sneaker net to the transmission device).

* I’d rather have hardened devices and lawful access to the deployed encryption by major service providers, rather than flawed by design consumer device architecture. Then I can employ strong encryption software on those devices and have more confidence in preventing big brother from snooping at all.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#28
post #20
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, in the way no one is "forcing" you to use email or a phone. You can opt out if you don't mind being unemployed and alone.

I don't think NOT having a facebook account has ever prevented anyone from getting a job. Rather the opposite, actually.

> I don't think NOT having a facebook account has ever prevented anyone from getting a job. Rather the opposite, actually.

Well, you're wrong. I've had interviewers ask why I host my own blog instead of using Facebook, and said it was very unusual that they couldn't check out my social background.

And Craiglist rental ads often screen applicants using social media, usually Facebook.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no need to make them mandatory, most people already have cameras and microphones in their homes, schools and workplaces that the government can access. This is more about getting access to the social graph.

I don’t think that is accurate. Just as with end-to-end encrypted messaging apps, they would have to use targeted 0-day exploits to access the cameras and microphones in people’s homes. End-to-end encryption doesn’t protect the social graph. They already know who is talking to who; they just don’t know what is being said.

The vast majority of "smart home" devices automatically shovel all of their camera data to the manufacturer's servers, because most consumers don't want to deal with a NAS box and remote access.

With this kind of architecture, law enforcement doesn't need 0-days, they only need a warrant/NSL, or to just ask the manufacturer nicely. Some manufacturers (e.g. Amazon/Ring) are a little too eager to essentially hand all of their data over to the police in real-time with almost no strings attached.

Devices that don't already upload everything to the cloud (e.g. Apple and Google's pinky-promise that smart assistant audio is processed locally) automatically receive and apply software and firmware updates from the manufacturer / carrier that can arbitrarily change device behavior. The government can and probably does compel these companies to write and push custom firmware to targeted devices.

"We encrypt your data so hard that we couldn't access it even if we wanted to" is almost always a lie, is never verifiable, and is ultimately subject to the same automatic firmware/software update problem.

It will never be possible to secure systems like these from government snooping, and people largely don't seem to care.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#30
post #27

Frictionless E2EE at scale is cancerous on society and the FYEV/JP alliance know this all too well. As this subject has been iterated over many times, will keep this comment short. * FB deploying frictionless, unbreakable encryption at scale makes the job of law enforcement harder, and makes it easier for less sophisticated criminals to get away with conspiracies (a word which, by the way, simply refers to two or mor…

Interesting points but I’ve never seen a comment like this anywhere but downvoted to oblivion.
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