141–150 of 187 posts
I'm keeping a gallery (just for a quick overview) of ergonomic keyboards. It might be useful for others interested in this thread. There's a lot of options, from something you can order from a large retailer, to a kit to solder yourself, to just plans to download. https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/
Thanks for the gallery! I'm surprised there aren't more integrated pointing devices (like TrackPoints).
I would have been perfectly happy if Microsoft had just kept making the Natural 4000 forever. Logitech has some 20+ year old designs they keep producing because for some people they're perfection, and I'd hoped Microsoft would continue likewise since it's been well over a decade with the 4000 too. But nope, it's dead, and the replacement isn't nearly as good.
https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-us/products/keyboar...
Along with a "#1 Best selling brand of ergonomic keyboards" icon that isn't on any of the other ms keyboards I just checked.
There have been times when they stopped producing them for a while and I thought they were done. But they have come back after a year or so.
Although, I was at best buy last year and they were $15 each and I bought the entire stock out of the store and its stashed in my attic. So maybe they are planning on an updated version. The only problem with them is really the keyboard feel is a little squishy, but nowhere near as bad as just about 99% of the other non mechanical keyboards out there.
MS has killed the intellimouse a couple times too, and they keep resurrecting it. And it keeps being this crazy good "sleeper" mouse. The latest "Classic Intellimouse" is again maybe the best tracking mouse out there. I just went through my mishmash of various high end mice and swapped them for the classics because I slowly over the span of a year or so (and lots of messing with the tracking on a couple high end logitech mice that cost 4x) came to the conclusion that it simply tracked better on the machine I had one plugged into. I have a desktop resolution that is crazy high, and the combination of sufficient acceleration+fine sampling required to land a mouse pointer on a small button somewhere on the screen is difficult on all but the best mice. I recently found myself struggling to do accurate text selection, swapped in the MS mouse and problem solved. The buttons and infinite scrolling thing on the Logitech/etc will be missed, but at the end of the day its about tracking, and MS again delivers.
I would have been perfectly happy if Microsoft had just kept making the Natural 4000 forever. Logitech has some 20+ year old designs they keep producing because for some people they're perfection, and I'd hoped Microsoft would continue likewise since it's been well over a decade with the 4000 too. But nope, it's dead, and the replacement isn't nearly as good.
I want something with more columns. I get the "limited finger movement" idea, but sometimes it is necessary. I don't want to do crazy customizations of layout, I just want split (ortholinear, not required to solder) keyboard to replace my Microsoft Sculpt
It's amazing that we constantly use tools with dozens of buttons permanently fixed to them, but rarely think about how we might yield those buttons to our own purposes. We just accept the defaults without considering other possibilities. Also gets into the idea of personalized UI more generally. You can imagine something like Photoshop ought to adapt what tools it shows based on how someone uses it. Then again, that…
Pretty soon, your emacs is basically incompatible with everyone else's and your carrying around a 2k line .emacs file. Brief was the same way IIRC. The entire user community customized it into a million different environments tailored to each persons tastes.
I would have been perfectly happy if Microsoft had just kept making the Natural 4000 forever. Logitech has some 20+ year old designs they keep producing because for some people they're perfection, and I'd hoped Microsoft would continue likewise since it's been well over a decade with the 4000 too. But nope, it's dead, and the replacement isn't nearly as good.
I've been using the Natural Keyboard Elite since 2001. I'm on my second one, not because the first one broke, but because it was so dirty that I replaced it in 2012. Really regret getting rid of the old one.
I never liked the newer Microsoft ones as much, and I can't go back to a straight keyboard, so I'll have to go down the rabbit hole when this one breaks. This discussion has been really informative.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I used the 4000 for a number of years, but found that it was causing problems in my right shoulder. The reason is the inclusion of a full numpad makes the keyboard so wide that your mouse hand has to sit really far to your right, causing your shoulder to be in a position of constant rotation and eventual strain. I eventually took a hacksaw to it to remove the numpad, which improved things - but it was the main reason…
Have you ever tried switching to using your left hand for the mouse. It is generally recommended for ergonomic reasons even if you don't have a keyboard issue. It'll seem weird to your brain at first, but I got used to it pretty quickly, as did everyone I know who has tried. When I was in grad school (before I had any ergonomic pains), I had my mouse on the left side at work, and the right side at home - so I was usi…
Unfortunately, gaming while mousing lefty is often inconvenient. Many games are set up assuming your left hand is on the keyboard. In most cases you can re-bind the keys though.
When I purchased my Ergodox, I also discovered that I cross-type the letter Y, and my muscle memory would lead me to hit a layer key instead, in the default layout, which would cause a bunch of the letter keys to do different things. My solution was to reprogram the layer key to be a null key that doesn't do anything, so instead of "Y equals your keyboard is now broken" it was "Y means nothing happens". I kept it tha…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's super interesting, thanks for sharing. Is the magic keyboard and trackpad considered to be ergonomic? I wonder what's the difference then in split keyboards and such.
Tangential: I find using an actual (Mac) laptop, with the trackpad in front of the keyboard, to be very ergonomic. This is on a desk with a screen attached, so I’m not staring down at the laptop screen. Rather than the hand sweeping all the way over to the right to reach the mouse, it just twists a little towards the trackpad. The palms never really leave their rests. I don’t use it like this a lot, but when I do I e…
That said, I love the Mac trackpad and it has great ergonomic potential, I just personally have to use it with a split keyboard with the halves on either side of the laptop. That way the motion of moving from trackpad to keyboard and back is a bend at the elbow, while the wrist stays straight.
I feel like most ergonomic keyboards work better for regular typing. A lot of the ergonomic (split) keyboards still force your hands in awkward positions if you're coding because of all the weird parentheses and symbols you don't normally use. What I haven't tried yet are ortholinear keyboards or tiny keyboards like the Atreus. Judging by the layout I'm guessing ortholinear keyboards would still force your hands into…
Like for me I hold down my right thumb key (which is also space if i were to just tap it) and that changes the layer allowing me type symbols like (){}[].
In practice it's as if you were using shift to capitalize something and it becomes second nature very quickly.
Getting used to chording and layers is what allows you to eventually use less and less keys like the split 36 key board I use these days: https://kagizaraya.booth.pm/items/1235510
