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“I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

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101–110 of 145 posts

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#101

Post by nsajko »

mgh2 wrote: post #30
ewi_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious as to how missiles (or any weapon for that matter) could be used in "non-evil" way

Technology is just a tool, ethics depends on the user. Study history: WWII, Cold War, etc. If you play nice with dictators, you will be annihilated. We have been enjoying the benefits of freedom and democracy our ancestors fought for, without considering the costs of their sacrifices. Extensive data and studies (ex: Zimbardo, Milgram) supports that humans have immense capacity for evil- checks and balances are there…

Zimbardo (the Stanford Prison Experiment) is a fraud. You can check Wikipedia, and even on HN there were many stories; search for "Zimbardo" or "Stanford Prison Experiment".

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#102

Post by iso947 »

ardit33 wrote: post #43
the-dude wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that? Has the US ever been seriously threatened on its terrority? These missiles are there to protect the economic hegemony.

oi... WW2 is not that far away.... japan attacked us soil. Also, WW1, the US stayed away as much as it could, the eventually had to intervene as its ships started sinking The point of having lots of weapons, is not to have to use them, but be credible threat to not have the other side dare to use their weapons on you. Russia/Putin and China are developing hypersonic nuclear missiles. What is the US going to do about…

Wasn’t Hawaii And Alaska independent from the US until after ww2?

Not defending isolationism, but wasn’t the last invasion of the US around 1812?

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#103

Post by dragonwriter »

iso947 wrote: post #102
ardit33 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oi... WW2 is not that far away.... japan attacked us soil. Also, WW1, the US stayed away as much as it could, the eventually had to intervene as its ships started sinking The point of having lots of weapons, is not to have to use them, but be credible threat to not have the other side dare to use their weapons on you. Russia/Putin and China are developing hypersonic nuclear missiles. What is the US going to do about…

Wasn’t Hawaii And Alaska independent from the US until after ww2? Not defending isolationism, but wasn’t the last invasion of the US around 1812?

> Wasn’t Hawaii And Alaska independent from the US until after ww2?

No, both were US territories.

They weren't states, but they weren't independent, either.

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#104

Post by pjmorris »

mgh2 wrote: post #87
pjmorris wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Technology was always just a tool There's a 1918 plaque in Bath, NC that reads "Bath, originally the Indian town of Pampticough, was settled by white men about 1690 and incorporated in 1703. It is the oldest town in North Carolina." What enabled the replacement of the original inhabitants was technology, in the form of ships, guns, and, arguably, health care. Given that events like this are some of the sources of t…

Please expand your case. Those technologies were developed for other initial purposes, your case just proves an example of ethics depending on users

'Technology is neutral' presumes equal access to technology. Technology without uniform access yields a power imbalance.

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#105

Post by iso947 »

iaw wrote: post #99
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth pointing out that carpet bombing in WWII was not some accident of primitive technology and inability to perform precise targeting. It was deliberate strategy from the UK and the USA, with the goal to demoralize and punish German & Japanese civilians. Mass civilian death and the total destruction of whole cities was the result. Napalm, for example was specifically developed to create building fires that wou…

Carpet bombing can be seen as a rational response to the V2 rocket which was indiscriminate of it's targeting of Londoners. War is often a case of responding in kind. If the Germans had had the capability of bombing London they would have (but couldn't thanks to radar). This was not a small conflict but an existential fight for existence between two groups of countries. I have a hard time judging the decision to carp…

Germany did bomb the crap out of London and other cities - the blitz in London, destroyed Coventry, and the “Baedeker blitz” Which had limited military justification

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#106

Post by akudha »

lumost wrote: post #86
akudha wrote: post #62

7500 miles per hour Woah! It is insane that they are able to do this. Does anyone know how much money/effort is going into achieving this? Might be interesting to compare such insane investments into destructive stuff vs investments in fighting poverty and such.

Investments unfortunately don't work that way, just because you have an opportunity to build a Tech company or a fancier weapon doesn't mean you have an opportunity to reduce poverty. ( although if you're financing hundreds of fancy weapon systems you may be irrationally diverting funds from productive ventures like healthcare. )

I get that part. What I don't get is : they have so much money for weaponry but not for healthcare for veterans? A huge percentage of homeless population is veterans btw.

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#107

Post by meowface »

bigbubba wrote: post #75
jamestimmins wrote: post #20

Simply as an observation, it’s interesting that serving in the military is usually treated as honorable, but working at a defense contractor is viewed as unethical. I wonder why that is?

'Defense contractor' is a euphemism used because mercenaries have been considered a disreputable lot for centuries, if not longer.

"Mercenary" is ambiguous, though. A mercenary is often defined as an entity who does any job for any buyer in the world, if the price is right. A defense contractor generally only engages in deals with certain entities. Mercenaries are more like NSO Group and HackingTeam.

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#108

Post by philipkglass »

iaw wrote: post #99
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth pointing out that carpet bombing in WWII was not some accident of primitive technology and inability to perform precise targeting. It was deliberate strategy from the UK and the USA, with the goal to demoralize and punish German & Japanese civilians. Mass civilian death and the total destruction of whole cities was the result. Napalm, for example was specifically developed to create building fires that wou…

Carpet bombing can be seen as a rational response to the V2 rocket which was indiscriminate of it's targeting of Londoners. War is often a case of responding in kind. If the Germans had had the capability of bombing London they would have (but couldn't thanks to radar). This was not a small conflict but an existential fight for existence between two groups of countries. I have a hard time judging the decision to carp…

Carpet bombing can be seen as a rational response to the V2 rocket which was indiscriminate of it's targeting of Londoners.

The British strategic bombing against Germany started with Operation Abigail Rachel in December 1940:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Mannheim_in_World_W...

Which itself followed the start of the London Blitz in September 1940:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz#First_phase

The first V2 attack against the UK was much later, in September 1944:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2_rocket#Operational_history

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#109

Post by WalterBright »

andretti1977 wrote: post #97
WalterBright wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hitler started WW2 because he thought the other countries wouldn't fight or were incapable of fighting. His comment about invading the Soviet Union: "We have only to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down." The way to make peace is to make sure it is not worthwhile for someone else to attack you.

Hitler success among germans is due to the high burden WWI winners imposed on germany. Other countries may have relieved pressure on germany and maybe Hitler may have been stopped before he became something among germans. Don't give people a reason to litigate and they won't fight. Try to consider that countries where there is a common level of wealth and welfare, have lower rates of criminality (i.e. Norway). Have y…

> you have to fight but you can try to prevent it

It's prevented if you're stronger than the other guy. I can't think of a single example in history of a country starting a war against a much more powerful opponent that was willing to use that power.

Imperial Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because they thought the US would be unwilling to fight a Pacific war with them. Hitler declared war on the US believing the US wouldn't fight. The Confederacy didn't believe the Union would fight, or if they did, was a match for the Confederacy.

> Do what you want to do to make it heaven or hell.

The US is a heaven by pretty much any historical measure. Military spending is 3-4% of GDP, a small price to pay to prevent war.

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#110

Post by Gibbon1 »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #39
TheRealJu4n wrote: post #2

This is an extreme example on how we are at risk for creating the very systems they use to put people at risk. There's no "ey, i'm one of the good guys, i'm on the right side", one day you wake up just to find yourself as the target.

My dad used to work on personal carriers during the Vietnam war. In 67 FMC sent him with a group of other engineer to Vietnam to figure out why the M113 wasn't performing as well as advertised. Short answer when you hit a M113 with a tank rocket it turns into an oven. My dad came home and quit. Since then I've been kinda aware that a lot of engineers work is on the balance is a net negative. Especially true in the US…

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