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Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

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Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#471

OT - Apple should have removed Telegram months ago. Telegram has been used to share some very bad COVID disinformation. My father who is older and lives in Iran shared with me this video about how to treat COVID. It was produced really nicely in the Farsi (Persian) language. Anyone who has ever read the book "Made to Stick" (highly recommended) would immediately that this video was designed to be a viral disinformati…

You can access disinformation through Safari. Should Safari be removed?

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#472

OT - Apple should have removed Telegram months ago. Telegram has been used to share some very bad COVID disinformation. My father who is older and lives in Iran shared with me this video about how to treat COVID. It was produced really nicely in the Farsi (Persian) language. Anyone who has ever read the book "Made to Stick" (highly recommended) would immediately that this video was designed to be a viral disinformati…

You can access disinformation through Safari. Should Safari be removed?

Comparing Safari with Telegram makes no sense. As they are so different in so many ways.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what do you do if you are Apple? Nothing because Apple has ZERO, no place meddling in this business. Just hear yourself, "it's against the TOS" versus people on the streets trying to save their own country from a stolen election and a dictator?? OF COURSE the TOS of a tech company is completely irrelevant in this situation. TOS aren't even laws, they were just created by a profit driven corporation for legal pro…

Whilst I agree with the specifics here, the problem is the general case. I don't agree that you should be allowed to post people's private, identifying data to a public forum without consent. This HAS to apply equally, because the idea that there is a universal set of right and wrong is incredibly naive. A better argument here is how the laws aren't applied equally. TrueCaller was used by the Chinese to harass and at…

The problem is somehow we have engineered a global society where Apple is the ultimate law enforcement authority in scenarios like this.

Is Tim Cook really qualified to be the ultimate authority of what speech is allowed or not allowed on a global basis, at least for all the billions of people who use their devices?

Similarly for Facebook, Twitter, Google, etc. We cannot allow a very small number of corporate CEOs to make unilateral decisions about how to police speech across the globe.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#476
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one technical reason is that WhatsApp groups — unlike Telegram groups — use encryption. So Facebook doesn't know what goes on inside them.

That's just a theater. If anybody can join a group, there must be a way to distribute the keys to those who joined. Anybody can get a key then, including Whatsapp/Facebook.

There's also the fact that any of those messages can be reported for doxxing or screenshotted to show proof that they're doxxing. Also, Telegram group chats are encrypted, just not E2E, so they've also likely been reported by people who visited them. They are public, after all. (Which seems like a puzzling approach when you're doing something illicit but that's a whole other matter.)

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't how technology works. I feel weird saying something so obvious to me but- Servers/databases have IP addresses that can be blocked just as easy to stop and App.

Telegram uses advanced techniques to avoid blocking. You can't just block few IP addresses and call it a day. AFAIK Telegram servers deliver IP addresses of proxy servers via silent Apple Push Notification. Censors have no way of blocking or intercepting those messages. They can only block Apple servers thus disrupting the entire Apple ecosystem from work.

That really isn't an advanced technique, that's just hiding behind Apple's skirts. The govt is no doubt quite willing to block Apple notifications, and Apple is obviously willing and able to kick apps from its notifications platform.

Russia for example is blocking all ESNI traffic... You either downgrade or get blocked. Which makes the big services shutdown of domain fronting so inexcusable, just kowtowing to China and every other regime.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if that's true - and I'm not going to get into that debate here - surely that doesn't mean that every company has to allow their products to become tools of mass violence.

Violence may be seen as legitimate, but it shouldn’t be seen as effective. In a study of over 300 movements, non violent protests are twice as effective. https://www.belfercenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/file...

As far as I can tell, though, unmasking isn't really coded as violent in the sense that the writer suggests.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#480
post #474

While I'm against doxing, what right does Apple have to tell Telegram what to do?

It's not doxing if they are state sponsored criminals. That is a horrible misuse of the term. You do not remove evidence of criminals indentity. That's a crime in itself. You are complicit in the crime by coving it up
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