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Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

blog.scottlogic.com

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Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#11

Post by dkersten »

I use a slightly configured Kinesis Advantage 2 and colemak as my keyboard layout (I used to make the Kinesis do the colemak, but now its just qwerty and the OS handles colemak). I find typing on it extremely comfortable. I've also found these beneficial: https://www.mycarpaltunnel.com/

I like Ergodox, especially because of their super flexible configuration, but I dislike the flatness of the keyboard compared to the Kinesis and last time I looked, they limited the length of macros "so you don't store passwords in them".. ehh, that's a stupid reason for adding limitations. As an adult, I can make my own decisions on what I store in my macros, thanks (I use a password manager, so its not passwords)

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#12

Post by whoisburbansky »

sdenton4 wrote: post #8

...And you will never be able to use a random keyboard it in the world again...

This simply isn't true; it's funny how often this criticism pops up in response to unorthodox layouts. Learning a different layout has, in my experience, and in that of most folks I've talked to that have done it, been more like learning to do everyday tasks with your non-dominant hand than some irreversible magical transformation that completely robs you of that ability to use a "normal" keyboard.

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#13

Post by dkersten »

sdenton4 wrote: post #8

...And you will never be able to use a random keyboard it in the world again...

I dislike using other keyboards (certainly non-mechanical ones), but have no problems doing so. I still use laptop keyboards (macbook pro, Dell XPS) when I'm not at home (rare in current situation) or if I want to use it away from my desk (not that often, but sometimes).

I do have to look at the keys if I'm not using Colemak though.

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#15

Post by petercooper »

swader999 wrote: post #7
petercooper wrote: post #3

Quite the rabbit hole and definitely worth the read :-) This seems a good place to bring up an odd experience of mine. I've had carpal tunnel for decades but no longer get many flare ups. After trying numerous keyboards, the solution turned out to be using Apple's Magic Keyboard and whatever their huge trackpad is called. The key for me seems to be low key travel, a smallish keyboard (to avoid any stretching), and av…

My solution was a Theragun, trackball mouse and a Truly Ergonomic keyboard.

I keep getting advertised Theraguns and similar things almost non-stop on Instagram. Are they worth the expense? And how/where are you using it to improve carpal tunnel?

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#16

Post by sdenton4 »

whoisburbansky wrote: post #12
sdenton4 wrote: post #8

...And you will never be able to use a random keyboard it in the world again...

This simply isn't true; it's funny how often this criticism pops up in response to unorthodox layouts. Learning a different layout has, in my experience, and in that of most folks I've talked to that have done it, been more like learning to do everyday tasks with your non-dominant hand than some irreversible magical transformation that completely robs you of that ability to use a "normal" keyboard.

I use a split kinesis in qwerty and have no problem moving between keyboards.

I had a friend who went full dvorak and had a hell of a time just changing an airline ticket on my machine, though. A big chunk of this article is about relearning typing for new key layouts...

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#17

Post by bootlooped »

dkersten wrote: post #11

I use a slightly configured Kinesis Advantage 2 and colemak as my keyboard layout (I used to make the Kinesis do the colemak, but now its just qwerty and the OS handles colemak). I find typing on it extremely comfortable. I've also found these beneficial: https://www.mycarpaltunnel.com/ I like Ergodox, especially because of their super flexible configuration, but I dislike the flatness of the keyboard compared to the…

Seems like the limit is 32 characters. That probably covers 99% of passwords ever made.

Even if you use a password manager you can still benefit from storing your master password as a macro, that allows you to have a very long one (at least up to 32 characters) without suffering the negative effects of that (it being a pain in the ass to type all the time).

It doesn't seem unsafe to me, although at first glance it's reasonable to be suspicious. Macro memory is lost if the keyboard is unplugged for a short amount of time, like if somebody swiped it off your desk. Nobody will know you store your password in your keyboard unless you tell them. It may be difficult to even figure out what key combinations trigger the macro; you can make it very complicated with multiple layers. As far as I know, there is no way to pull the layout back off the Ergodox and view it in the configuration tool, so you couldn't just easily look up what the macro combo is. You use 2 factor on everything important anyway right?

If somebody had access to your keyboard to do this, it would be much easier to just plug a keylogger in between the keyboard and PC.

EDIT: it seems likely I misinterpreted what they meant.

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#18

Post by MikeTheGreat »

sdenton4 wrote: post #8

...And you will never be able to use a random keyboard it in the world again...

There's already a bunch of other posts disputing this claim (and I want to be clear that I agree with the disputations :) ), but the 2 cents I want to throw in are:

Having built an ErgoDox (from the online plans) I regularly use it and have good muscle memory for it. When I switch to a regular keyboard my muscle memory for that other keyboard kicks in and I'm able to use that one fine.

It's actually harder to switch from using my ErgoDox on Windows to the same ErgoDox on Mac because I use the bottom-left key for control on Windows and the bottom-right key for Command on Mac (both on the left-hand-side of the keyboard).

Even that's not too bad, but there is a noticeable 'switch over' time - maybe 5-10 minutes or so.

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#19

Post by StevenWaterman »

bootlooped wrote: post #17
dkersten wrote: post #11

I use a slightly configured Kinesis Advantage 2 and colemak as my keyboard layout (I used to make the Kinesis do the colemak, but now its just qwerty and the OS handles colemak). I find typing on it extremely comfortable. I've also found these beneficial: https://www.mycarpaltunnel.com/ I like Ergodox, especially because of their super flexible configuration, but I dislike the flatness of the keyboard compared to the…

Seems like the limit is 32 characters. That probably covers 99% of passwords ever made. Even if you use a password manager you can still benefit from storing your master password as a macro, that allows you to have a very long one (at least up to 32 characters) without suffering the negative effects of that (it being a pain in the ass to type all the time). It doesn't seem unsafe to me, although at first glance it's…

I think the parent is talking about the limit in Oryx, their online configuration tool. In Oryx, they limit macros to 4 characters. It's not because storing passwords on the keyboard is unsafe, it's because storing passwords in Oryx is unsafe. They're stored in plaintext and publicly visible.

In response to the parent, you can configure longer macros using QMK directly.

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