Live data from Hacker News

The next US president won’t be great for H-1B visas

qz.com

31–40 of 93 posts

Re: The next US president won’t be great for H-1B visas

#31
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never understood why H1-B applications weren’t sorted by compensation (salary): higher salaries go first. Seems like a trivial way to prevent visa farming.

H1-B applications are not only for tech jobs, and not only for the bay area. There are many other professions which are subject to the same cap, and also have to look outside of the US to fill roles. Nurses are one that come to mind. If all H1-Bs are just sorted by comp, you'll end up with FAANG getting 80k H1-Bs per year. You may want to argue that "well then other companies don't deserve them if they can't compete…

> They may be valid points, but it is unreasonable to expect that another industry can compete salary-wise against FAANG at the moment, and it doesn't make their inability to find candidates locally any less true.

Even if they stopped doing stock buy-backs?

Re: The next US president won’t be great for H-1B visas

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H1-B applications are not only for tech jobs, and not only for the bay area. There are many other professions which are subject to the same cap, and also have to look outside of the US to fill roles. Nurses are one that come to mind. If all H1-Bs are just sorted by comp, you'll end up with FAANG getting 80k H1-Bs per year. You may want to argue that "well then other companies don't deserve them if they can't compete…

> They may be valid points, but it is unreasonable to expect that another industry can compete salary-wise against FAANG at the moment, and it doesn't make their inability to find candidates locally any less true. Even if they stopped doing stock buy-backs?

Which industries (non-tech) do you think are doing so many stock buy-backs that if they stopped, they would be paying FAANG level salaries to other H1-B qualifying professions?

Re: The next US president won’t be great for H-1B visas

#33
post #30

Auction, auction, auction - but not with fees, with salaries. Set a cap on number of entrants, and then "auction" the slots. Adjust the cap on entrants annually. No showing of specific market need required, or educational background of the applicant. Just criminal background and health checks on the applicant. The bid is the (gross) pay of the role with a minimum commit of 36 months. Winning bids are paid to the empl…

I like some of your points, and H1B desperately needs a revamp. However, a direct unadjusted salary based auction is a non-starter for the following reasons: - Non tech professions also hire people on H1Bs and don't pay as well as FAANG-likes do. - Wages are generally lower in non bay area locations. Employers in low COL areas might lose out to those in high COL areas. > Employees who voluntarily quit or are terminat…

> Wages are generally lower in non bay area locations. Employers in low COL areas might lose out to those in high COL areas.

Maybe it's time to start valuing employees on the value they add instead of some arbitrary rent price! The talent is global after all.

Re: The next US president won’t be great for H-1B visas

#34

Auction, auction, auction - but not with fees, with salaries. Set a cap on number of entrants, and then "auction" the slots. Adjust the cap on entrants annually. No showing of specific market need required, or educational background of the applicant. Just criminal background and health checks on the applicant. The bid is the (gross) pay of the role with a minimum commit of 36 months. Winning bids are paid to the empl…

There's a lot of this that I like, but wouldn't the auction just create a single market rate for H1-B employees that's independent of the market rate for the position they're filling? The clause where the employer has to pay the govt the remaining salary if the employee leaves early sounds like it's designed to encourage employers to pay more to discourage that, but I'm not sure what incentive other employers would have to pay more than the H1-B market rate to hire H1-B visa holders who are already here when they could pay the market rate to hire a new visa holder.

Re: The next US president won’t be great for H-1B visas

#35
post #12

“I am hearing from many constituents, who have been waiting over ten years, for a green card“ - Constituent - “ any of the voters who elect a person to represent them.” H1B are not US citizens, and politicians considering them their “constituents” are misrepresenting their true constituents interests.

My dictionary offers "A resident of an area represented by an elected official".

This is actually acutely important to both the history of the United States of America and to a grasp of how a representative democracy (if the US is to remain one) works

So, let's go back to the mid-18th century. America is a colony. The colonists are unhappy because they feel unrepresented, but in Westminster, London, the Members of Parliament are content that indeed those colonists are represented - by them - even though the colonists don't get a vote. This concept is named "virtual representation" and we'll return to it. The colonists oppose it, "No taxation without representation" they cry.

It is worth taking a moment here to consider that those Members were not elected by the majority of the people in the districts they were elected to. Only wealthy men in England could vote at that time, a tiny fraction of the population who'd be affected by the Parliament's decisions. This is also prior to Great Reform, so the districts represented do not closely resemble one another in population (though next century things would get much worse before they got better)

So, the Americans revolt, and having won their independence they set up for themselves a new system of government. In many ways this system is reminiscent of the one they've just got rid of, except that (no surprises) the rich old white men who didn't like the old system are instead placed in charge of the new one. In particular, the United States of America does not in fact enfranchise all its citizens, it actually only gives the vote to wealthy men, almost exactly the same as England had done. Still, they now feel represented (and indeed have become important political figures in their new country) and so for them it seems mission accomplished.

The US Congress offers exactly the same weak rationale as the English parliament, virtual representation. Sure, women, the poor, slaves, children and so on are not allowed to vote but we promise your Congress people are representing you anyway.

And so that's the status quo. Either you aren't really a representative democracy, with your millions who are disenfranchised for various reasons†, or you accept that representation is necessarily distinct from enfranchisement - the right to vote.

† In both England and the US the franchise was greatly expanded, to include more men, and eventually women, but although such expansions are almost invariably described as "universal" by their proponents in both countries many people can't vote, and neither is close to even achieving the more reasonable standard of allowing everybody who can meaningfully express an opinion (which would rule out newborns for example) the vote. Not least both prevent people from voting if they are in prison, as if somehow prison reform wouldn't be a very significant issue those people might now have more insight into than other voters...

Re: The next US president won’t be great for H-1B visas

#36
post #25
post #6

You can take all kinds of policy positions on a campaign, but any president cannot really do much to the H1B system without passing laws. Passing a new immigration bill is very hard since there are so many competing interests benefiting from the status quo and there is very little to gain electorally. The current administration tried using executive action and regulatory approaches to fulfil their agenda and both kee…

> The current administration tried using executive action and regulatory approaches to fulfil their agenda and both keep getting struck down in courts. The new upward revision in wage levels are also expected to have the same fate. There is simply very little regulatory leeway on H1B visas since they are encoded in law. That’s not accurate. The original law in the 1960s was designed to be very different, and one of t…

Immigration laws were passed and signed even after 1960s. Since I only focused on H1B in my original comment I will only seek to address that point.

H1B changes were not implemented by administrative fiat. The AC21 act was passed to provide unlimited H1B extensions with an approved employment-based immigration application.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa

Re: The next US president won’t be great for H-1B visas

#38

Auction, auction, auction - but not with fees, with salaries. Set a cap on number of entrants, and then "auction" the slots. Adjust the cap on entrants annually. No showing of specific market need required, or educational background of the applicant. Just criminal background and health checks on the applicant. The bid is the (gross) pay of the role with a minimum commit of 36 months. Winning bids are paid to the empl…

So only visa for FAANG and finance? Who is going to work outside of New York and Silicon Valley? Who is going to work at the universities?

Re: The next US president won’t be great for H-1B visas

#39

Auction, auction, auction - but not with fees, with salaries. Set a cap on number of entrants, and then "auction" the slots. Adjust the cap on entrants annually. No showing of specific market need required, or educational background of the applicant. Just criminal background and health checks on the applicant. The bid is the (gross) pay of the role with a minimum commit of 36 months. Winning bids are paid to the empl…

I have a startup, 4 in US, 10 in India - top tier engineers. I just hired my first H1B - while we pay well - bidding and salary escrow will just favor the big 5 - they are starving startups of talent in bay area any way. Investors want me to get traction with $2M, our needed engineers are at $600-$800k comp (300 base) how do I make it work?

Regulation has unintended consequences. As an example trying to save retails investors from fraud means IPOs are fewer and large investors get all the growth.

Not to make this political, but highly educated and highly paid “employees” voting for “career politicians” and “bureaucrats” seriously overestimate their understanding of issues and competence. They are missing data points and should lean to minimum regulation.

Recent changes asking H1 to be paid >40th percentile of salary instead of 17th percentile seems sensible and enough.

Re: The next US president won’t be great for H-1B visas

#40

The H1 reform is a great move. The current H1B program made no sense at all. If I wanted to hire: A smart graduate from EPFL, Polytechnique or ETH Zurich who interned at CERN and has contributed to the Linux kernel for a software engineering job at a unicorn startup or A grad from a second tier "technical college" in India with a visa refusal rate of ~90% for a job doing manual UI testing and QA for a body shop my on…

Do you feel the need to repost the exact same argument word-for-word?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24702805

Post reply on HN