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Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

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Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#191

Post by [deleted] »

robertlagrant wrote: post #127
jb1991 wrote: post #86

The 1984 metaphor is frequently cited as a great irony here. It’s a well-known theme however, consider Game of Thrones: a dragon queen frees the oppressed of the world with a movement to make all the societies a better place, until it is revealed that she’s actually just power-hungry and wants to control it all, even if it means destroying it all. Sometimes you have to wait to the end to put the beginning motivations…

Also it's a company, not a single person, and companies change staff and leadership. Thinking that they're a person is a common fallacy. Almost as common as thinking of the state as one's eternal parent.

[deleted]

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#192

Post by ffpip »

vetinari wrote: post #103
whyoh wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one technical reason is that WhatsApp groups — unlike Telegram groups — use encryption. So Facebook doesn't know what goes on inside them.

That's just a theater. If anybody can join a group, there must be a way to distribute the keys to those who joined. Anybody can get a key then, including Whatsapp/Facebook.

These new people cannot access older messages. e2ee

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#193

Post by tgv »

LockAndLol wrote: post #62

People will never learn: don't buy Apple products. You're locking yourself in. It's your own damn fault you bought their device. It's their device and their OS. They can and will dictate whatever they like. If you're doing something that hurts their bottom line, don't be surprised when they take measures to curtail those actions. They're a company. If you don't want to support their actions, don't buy their products.…

These issues are unrelated, or: it's not a choice between Apple and freedom.

First, yes, buying iOS is a partial lock-in. But so is almost every other consumer choice: only if you stick to FOSS and open document formats, and are technical enough to convert your own documents once your apps are no longer supported, you may consider yourself free. Otherwise, lock-in is a given.

The lock-in isn't full, either: pictures, email, videos, bookmarks, etc. can be exported to other devices.

Second: if you buy Apple, you don't give up the right to protest them. Since the company depends on its customers, pressure can be effective. This is in contrast with free products, where customer pressure can turn counter-productive.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#195

Post by 411111111111111 »

dividedbyzero wrote: post #183
echelon wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop worshipping this company. It's not a force for good. They've kicked us out of open computing by locking down the only computer a lot of folks own (iPhone). And now look what kind of shit they can pull because they own the entire stack! This shouldn't be possible! We really have to push against this and hope the DOJ forces all phone providers to allow "side-loading" (what a bizarre term!) The iPhone is a c…

Yes, don't worship any company or organisation, not Apple, not SpaceX, not Bell Labs, not the United States of America, none at all. Even if they do the right things now, future leadership may decide to do the opposite and lie about it, values may change, goals shift. Try to treat them as groups of strangers that change every few years, not as individuals with a personality that you somehow feel like you really reall…

Nobody wants to remove all security policies etc from iOS. I'm not sure what gave you that idea in this thread.

Requiring permissions from users to access data is good, and an actually well curated app store is just as useful.

That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be possible to install through different avenues as well (still requiring the users permission).

Yes you would get a lot of shitty software if you started installing everything you stumble upon, but the apple store quality would probably increased significantly, because they could deny significantly more apps, as they'd have an alternative approach to get to users that really want it

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#196

Post by simonh »

snoshy wrote: post #111
simonh wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We browsers are specifically excepted from the App Store rules on content. That’s basically because browser vendors don’t have a direct relationship with web site publishers, the way that a service provider like Facebook or Telegram has a relationship with their users that post content. That relationship creates a chain of responsibility.

That may be, but it does not refute the accusation that this is a double standard.

Well, yes it does. If you have signed up users with accounts, and you own the infrastructure for disseminating the content they produce, youre responsible for their posts and presence on your platform, and the content you are disseminating. None of that applies to web browsers, or IRC clients, or RSS feed clients, or podcast apps, or plenty of other client apps on the App Store.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#197

Post by halter73 »

akudha wrote: post #136
boudin wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's been a technique that apple have been using quite a bit. Forbid apps to be transparent with their customers around apple rules. This way app users are pissed at the app makers not apple.

Isn't this the same tactic that govt agencies use? Apple is simply borrowing the idea

Are you referring to gag orders related to ongoing criminal investigations or something else?

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#198

Post by Const-me »

iddqd wrote: post #145
robertlagrant wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we need a chat protocol that does the same decoupling, then.

Do you think Apple would approve a client app to such a chat network?

Do they allow e-mail clients there?

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#199

Post by vmvarga »

luckylion wrote: post #142
baybal2 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For as long as I know, it's explicitly legally forbidden for private parties in US to engage in foreign relations. So, "even" by the word of US law, Apple has no permission to engage with Belarus government.

I don't think somebody reporting content for policy review (Apple's content policy, not foreign policy) is affected by any US laws. That person wouldn't have to be an Apple customer, they wouldn't have to be a user, they wouldn't have to be outside the US. I doubt there are any laws that would forbid Apple from taking or acting on a report of content policy violations.

It probably is just about doxxing, but it still shows how scummy and so far up their own ass Apple is. Just think about the lenght of the reach - trying to regulate what content somebody on a messenger app should post, not even social media platform like twitter/facebook (do they monitor those too? Telling them which groups to have?) They feel like they're creating their own little world, their own universe. And it's not some unambiguous situation like posting nudes of your ex gfs, it's very complicated what's happening in Belarus, at the very least they shouldn't interfere. But they couldn't care less about democracies of the world, if there's a slightest chance that Apple very very remotely might burn - they're OUT. And on top of that they want you to be clueless about it.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#200

Post by ghostcluster »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #79
ghostcluster wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got to just hope that Apple realizes how bad this would blow up in their face if they worked with police in Belarus to identify democratic protestors, especially given their emphasis on "privacy" in their marketing.

How would it blow up in their face when Apple's customers don't care? Apple has handed over the entire operation of iCloud in China to a regime owned company, including all user data and keys (they did warn users that they were going to do that though). At the same time they do not permit side-loading, thereby handing complete control over what users are allowed to install on their devices to authoritarian regimes. T…

This is the kind of hyprocisy that chips away at a brand's hard earned reputation. You may notice it's currently the top post on Hacker News. It was also the top post on /r/Apple/ earlier today, surely a haven of some of Apple's biggest fans and customers.
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