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Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

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Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#101

Post by Retr0 »

samat wrote: post #78

Apple reps told Russian media outlet TJournal that they did not demand channel takedown, they requested to take down only specific posts containing personal information of police officers. https://tjournal.ru/tech/221326-apple-zayavila-chto-ne-trebo...

https://t.me/durov/136

>Apple released a statement saying they didn't want us to take down the 3 channels run by the Belarusian protestors, but just specific posts "disclosing personal information."

>This sly wording ignores the fact that channels like @karatelibelarusi and @belarusassholes consist entirely of personal information of violent oppressors and those who helped rig the elections – because that is why those channels exist.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#102

Post by _RPL5_ »

Here is a source in Russian [0] saying that Apple is asking Telegram to remove messages that de-anonymize Belorussian police members, rather than blocking channels outright. I don't know whether their source is reliable, but here is the relevant snippet (google translate):

> Apple says it didn’t require any channels to be removed. But they demanded to immediately remove any information that discloses someone's data on the Internet without the consent of these persons, as well as content aimed at specific people in accordance with the rules of the App Store.

This refers to the efforts of the Belorussian opposition to 'unmask' members of the riot police by posting their personal details online. Without going into the moral weeds, from the terms-of-service point of view that's basically griefing, no?

So this is a very curious quandary Apple finds itself in. Let's assume that griefing Belorussian law enforcement is a good thing. But at the same time griefing people (regardless of whether they are bad/good/chaotic neutral) is against the TOS.

So what do you do if you are Apple?

[0] https://tjournal.ru/tech/221326-apple-zayavila-chto-ne-trebo...

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#103

Post by vetinari »

whyoh wrote: post #51
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #6

Through what right or means can Apple demand this, though? Telegram is a platform for user-generated content and it seems odd for Apple to single-out those 3 channels/groups specifically - what about the hundreds of thousands of other objectionable groups on Telegram? And why Telegram in particular? Why doesn't Apple give the same ultimatum to Facebook to pressure them to block access to militant ethnonationalist gro…

Well, one technical reason is that WhatsApp groups — unlike Telegram groups — use encryption. So Facebook doesn't know what goes on inside them.

That's just a theater. If anybody can join a group, there must be a way to distribute the keys to those who joined. Anybody can get a key then, including Whatsapp/Facebook.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#104

Post by [deleted] »

ghostcluster wrote: post #34
john_minsk wrote: post #10

I'm from Belarus. Honestly, I'm surprised Apple gives a shit. Now I'm worried that Apple can cooperate with local police in case they make inquiry. Am I safe? Here is the link to one group that uses ML to de-anonymize people: https://youtu.be/FAJIrnphTFg

You've got to just hope that Apple realizes how bad this would blow up in their face if they worked with police in Belarus to identify democratic protestors, especially given their emphasis on "privacy" in their marketing.

[deleted]

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#105

Post by throwbackThurs »

LockAndLol wrote: post #62

People will never learn: don't buy Apple products. You're locking yourself in. It's your own damn fault you bought their device. It's their device and their OS. They can and will dictate whatever they like. If you're doing something that hurts their bottom line, don't be surprised when they take measures to curtail those actions. They're a company. If you don't want to support their actions, don't buy their products.…

We are fucked either way. Google isn't any better.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#107

Post by simonh »

PureParadigm wrote: post #13

This is a complete double-standard. Telegram messages are user-generated content. Is Apple going to start blocking websites in the Safari app? I'm sure one could find a lot worse things than doxxing by using Safari.

We browsers are specifically excepted from the App Store rules on content. That’s basically because browser vendors don’t have a direct relationship with web site publishers, the way that a service provider like Facebook or Telegram has a relationship with their users that post content. That relationship creates a chain of responsibility.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#108

Post by baybal2 »

luckylion wrote: post #99
ignoramous wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hurts their PR. They can't be out there doing ad campaigns taking a dig at the Facebooks and the Googles of the world whilst overtly abiding to the whims of totalitarian regimes.

But it's Belarus, the government is highly unpopular in the West and not really popular anywhere else. And it's not like China where they'd lose a giant market if they decided to stand up to the government, Belarus has a population of under 10m with an average income of under $6k a year. It might just be about doxxing, but the PR problem remains, of course.

I would be very surprised this being just it, the chance of them finding out about obscure chat channels in a country across the ocean without somebody from Apple having a job monitoring them full time is infinitesimal.

This very much reminds me how Google disappeared websites of Russian opposition (weeks after signing some memorandum with kremlin,) and then told "maybe they need to improve their search engine friendliness?"

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#109

Post by hutzlibu »

afwe wrote: post #81
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #6

Through what right or means can Apple demand this, though? Telegram is a platform for user-generated content and it seems odd for Apple to single-out those 3 channels/groups specifically - what about the hundreds of thousands of other objectionable groups on Telegram? And why Telegram in particular? Why doesn't Apple give the same ultimatum to Facebook to pressure them to block access to militant ethnonationalist gro…

>Through what right or means can Apple demand this, though? The App Store is theirs and they will kick you out if they don't like you. Isn't that good enough?

More than enough. It should be noted in bold writing on the TOS, though.
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