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ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

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Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#281

Post by vlozko »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #268
gshulegaard wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I somewhat disagree. I think the gold standard would have been for Fortnite to simply increase the prices of IAP purchases on iOS devices to pass the 30% on to consumers who choose to use iOS IAP. I can't seem to find a rule that says pricing must be the same for IAP as elsewhere in current guidelines: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#sub... That seems like the best of both worlds in the sense…

I think there's something inherently unethical about Apple making it against the rules to let people know they're paying more to buy it on Apple though.

That’s like Apple selling their watches in a Target store and on their box advertise lower priced wrist bands on apple.com on the box. No way would Target tolerate that.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#282

Post by LockAndLol »

No matter what Apple does, people will say they're right to do so. The biggest fuck you that app devs can show to Apple is to develop exclusively for Android. Then add a notice on their page WHY they won't develop an iOS app. Maybe even a hip hashtag like #AppleMafia

Voilà. If you're treated like shit in a store, don't use the bloody store.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#283

Post by apsanz »

dpiers wrote: post #182
Barrin92 wrote: post #167

Apple is nothing else but the digital equivalent of a landlord extracting economic rents from everyone in the ecosystem. It's time to put an end to it, and while we're at it the same goes for all the other platform owners. We (in this case the EU) should give it the same treatment we gave credit card companies. Cap their rates at 1% or whatever so they can cover the operational costs of their stores, stop them from b…

What about video game consoles? Early in a generation, they are sold at razor-thin (or negative) margins, with the expectation that the manufacturer will recoup losses from licensing fees over the life of the console and that costs will come down in later revisions. If manufacturers lose their substantial licensing fees, they would be forced to charge more upfront for the consoles which is objectively worse for consu…

Would consumer really be objectively worse? The small margins are only early in a generation that last 7 years. The hard core gamers will need to pay more to get a console but the consoles would quickly drop in price. Also, the games would likely be much cheaper.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#284

Post by justaguy88 »

bsg75 wrote: post #43

I'm actually happier to pay a small premium for IAP based subscriptions because of the cancellation options. Having been subjected to asinine "retention" policies that make ending a subscription service an onerous and time consuming process (ex: NYT), and having seen first hand how a company purposefully makes subscription cancellations difficult, being able to open a single interface and click `Cancel` is a massive…

Being able to easily click 'cancel' is worth every penny

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#286

Post by vlozko »

manfredo wrote: post #202
dpiers wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about video game consoles? Early in a generation, they are sold at razor-thin (or negative) margins, with the expectation that the manufacturer will recoup losses from licensing fees over the life of the console and that costs will come down in later revisions. If manufacturers lose their substantial licensing fees, they would be forced to charge more upfront for the consoles which is objectively worse for consu…

Consoles are much, much narrower in use than smartphones. Most consoles have a few thousand titles, if that. By comparison the App Store had millions of applications. And as you point out, manufacturers are building these consoles at a loss. Apple builds it's phones at a profit. Getting a game approved for sale on a console is much more involved than releasing an App on the App Store, and involves significant manual…

There’s no legal way to define the boundary between what’s classified as a computer vs a console. Game consoles have apps that are traditional to a computer, such as streaming video and even video editing. Portability isn’t a reliable indicator as you have systems like the Switch.

Nor is it realistically possible to create legal guidelines based on profit margins. I don’t see how it makes sense to apply a different set of rules on devices that are sold as a loss and make up for it in software sales vs the inverse or even both being profitable.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#287

Post by athms »

anticensor wrote: post #278
simion314 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is bigger then that. Apple takes a 30% cut(and the fanboys will say it is legal and fair and theoretically Apple could make it 99% and should still be legal) and on top of that cut they are forcing you not to inform the customer about alternatives, YES Apple prevents you to be informed by better reals and deciding for yourself what is better, so you could say that Apple is protecting you because you are t…

Cut >50% and it's now a extortion with no further analysis. And extortion is illegal in any civilised state, including USA.

>Cut >50% and it's now a extortion

Extortion (or blackmail) has a legal definition and this isn't it. In California (where Apple is incorporated and headquartered), the statute states:

Extortion is the obtaining of property or other consideration from another, with his or her consent, or the obtaining of an official act of a public officer, induced by a wrongful use of force or fear, or under color of official right.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#288

Post by vulcan01 »

znpy wrote: post #37
hollander wrote: post #12

I hope they will complain about this with the EU. Maybe the EU can stop this nonsense.

Afaik ProtonMail is based in Switzerland, thus they might not be able to involve the EU.

If you scroll to the very bottom of https://protonmail.com, you'll find that "This project is supported by the European Union's Horizon 2020 program".

I'm not sure whether Swiss companies can apply to this grant, but it does seem like ProtonMail have some sort of relationship with the EU.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#289

Post by inopinatus »

pwinnski wrote: post #121
TheRealPomax wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the opposite argument to what the problem is right now. It's not that IAP is bad, or that it shouldn't be available. It's that there's no alternative permitted in addition to Apple's IAP model. You're not even allowed to HINT at the fact that you might have alternative ways to pay for the things you want to pay for. Even if your name is hugeservicethateveryoneknows, you can't tell people that you have a websi…

This seems like a pretty large misreading of the situation. Yes, the most disagreeable thing about Apple's IAP policies is where they forbid links to alternative purchase pages. But it is also the smallest of the current complaints. It's not "additional" means of purchases many companies are pushing for. They want to be able to avoid offering Apple's IAP whatsoever. I mean, ProtonMail did not have IAP in their app at…

It may be ProtonMail's situation but speaking as a consumer, far from being the smallest complaint; my largest complaint is that Apple intentionally require third parties to mislead me about my options.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#290

Post by e40 »

bsg75 wrote: post #43

I'm actually happier to pay a small premium for IAP based subscriptions because of the cancellation options. Having been subjected to asinine "retention" policies that make ending a subscription service an onerous and time consuming process (ex: NYT), and having seen first hand how a company purposefully makes subscription cancellations difficult, being able to open a single interface and click `Cancel` is a massive…

Regarding the NYT: either use paypal, so you can cancel their ability to charge, or a CC with virtual CC numbers (e.g. Citi). That way, you can't be charged unless you want it.
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