ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion' • Hacker News Board

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#121

Post by pwinnski » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

TheRealPomax wrote: post #116

bsg75 wrote: post #43

I'm actually happier to pay a small premium for IAP based subscriptions because of the cancellation options. Having been subjected to asinine "retention" policies that make ending a subscription service an onerous and time consuming process (ex: NYT), and having seen first hand how a company purposefully makes subscription cancellations difficult, being able to open a single interface and click `Cancel` is a massive…

This is the opposite argument to what the problem is right now. It's not that IAP is bad, or that it shouldn't be available. It's that there's no alternative permitted in addition to Apple's IAP model. You're not even allowed to HINT at the fact that you might have alternative ways to pay for the things you want to pay for. Even if your name is hugeservicethateveryoneknows, you can't tell people that you have a websi…

This seems like a pretty large misreading of the situation.

Yes, the most disagreeable thing about Apple's IAP policies is where they forbid links to alternative purchase pages. But it is also the smallest of the current complaints.

It's not "additional" means of purchases many companies are pushing for. They want to be able to avoid offering Apple's IAP whatsoever.

I mean, ProtonMail did not have IAP in their app at all, but offered options to pay for their service on their website. Apple insisted, as you suggest, that they "at least offer the platform's own payment service as initial and preferred choice," and now ProtonMail is saying that is "Mafia extortion."

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#122

Post by blago » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 5:19 PM UTC

wycy wrote: post #56

bsg75 wrote: post #43

I'm actually happier to pay a small premium for IAP based subscriptions because of the cancellation options. Having been subjected to asinine "retention" policies that make ending a subscription service an onerous and time consuming process (ex: NYT), and having seen first hand how a company purposefully makes subscription cancellations difficult, being able to open a single interface and click `Cancel` is a massive…

> ex: NYT NYT is a great example of this. It took me multiple attempts over a span of 2 days to cancel my NYT subscription. There have been a few times since then when I've been tempted to re-subscribe (their election results tools are great), but remembering how hard it was to unsubscribe, I don't think I'll go back.

I saw that coming and turned the tables on them by initiating a payment dispute and a merchant block with my CC company after I realized that the NYT is wasting my time intentionally.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#123

Post by ProAm » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

drummer wrote: post #120

ProAm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's protection money. Apple is 'protecting you' from bad actors.

Apple is 'protecting' you from what they are going to do to you if you don't do what they want and pay. Much like the government and IRS.

> Much like the government and IRS.

...and the mafia.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#124

Post by pier25 » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 5:21 PM UTC

coder543 wrote: post #93

toastal wrote: post #42

Let's just use PWA! Oh wait, no push notifications, proprietary asset properties, and other crippled feature sets on iOS? Guess that option is out too.

You want an email app to be able to have notifications?! -- Apple, surprised pikachu face, probably It has been over 5 years since Chrome for Android added support for push notifications. Apple needs to stop dragging their heels here, since they are clearly using every excuse in the book not to let users receive notification from apps outside the app store purely because it benefits them financially to do this, in a…

> If PWAs supported APNS, Apple would have a significantly more defensible anti-trust position, but Apple has shown that they just have no interest in making things easier for themselves

I've been wondering about this for the past couple of weeks.

Is Apple really so blind that they don't see they are digging themselves into a hole?

If iOS had first-class support for PWAs they could probably keep running the AppStore in any way they wish.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#125

Post by brobdingnagians » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

fermigier wrote: post #117

This reminds me of a very different time... In 1997, then CEO of Sybase Mitchell Kertzman said in an interview with the French trade magazine 01 Informatique: "Q: When you launched Jaguar CTS, a middleware tool competing with a Microsoft product, you received a rather explicit phone call... A: It was the Mafia! When I hung up, I realized that I had just received a phone call from the godfather who forbade me to sell…

Does he mean that Microsoft literally called him and told him not to use Jaguar CTS? Would that be telemetry phoning back when competing products were used? I'm a bit confused by the word choice there.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#126

Post by bitL » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

fermigier wrote: post #117

This reminds me of a very different time... In 1997, then CEO of Sybase Mitchell Kertzman said in an interview with the French trade magazine 01 Informatique: "Q: When you launched Jaguar CTS, a middleware tool competing with a Microsoft product, you received a rather explicit phone call... A: It was the Mafia! When I hung up, I realized that I had just received a phone call from the godfather who forbade me to sell…

It seems like completing the Mafia trilogy games is a prerequisite for being a CxO...

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#127

Post by thewebcount » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 5:26 PM UTC

nlitened wrote: post #60

namanaggarwal wrote: post #49

What problem does Apple have with PWAs (apart from monetary ones ofcourse), how are they justifying not implementing features in browser for a good PWA?

My battery life and privacy.

And user experience. There are native parts of the OS for which there are no PWA hooks (and it would basically be reimplementing the entire OS in the browser to add them all). They want the experience on their devices to be the full experience, not the limited web experience you get with PWAs.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#128

Post by lisper » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

bsg75 wrote: post #43

I'm actually happier to pay a small premium for IAP based subscriptions because of the cancellation options. Having been subjected to asinine "retention" policies that make ending a subscription service an onerous and time consuming process (ex: NYT), and having seen first hand how a company purposefully makes subscription cancellations difficult, being able to open a single interface and click `Cancel` is a massive…

30% is not an amount I would consider a "small" premium.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#129

Post by bitL » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #109

varispeed wrote: post #102

I hope that the model Apple is using will be made illegal, most likely in the EU first. But I am concerned that if you have a one trillion dollars, they you pretty much can do anything you want, as with such money you can buy any decision. Apple should be forced to allow 3rd party app stores in their ecosystem. There are many other things Apple is doing wrong and all we can do now is to raise awareness about their sh…

> I am proud that I pretty much cured everyone in my circle from buying any Apple products. And buying what instead?

There are luckily some options for high-end now like ASUS ProArt and similar.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#130

Post by coder543 » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

nlitened wrote: post #60

namanaggarwal wrote: post #49

What problem does Apple have with PWAs (apart from monetary ones ofcourse), how are they justifying not implementing features in browser for a good PWA?

My battery life and privacy.

A web app added to your home screen affects privacy much less than a native app, since it is even more sandboxed and restricted, and it even affects battery life less in some areas due to these restrictions.

Native apps can schedule background tasks, among other things that would impact your battery life and privacy.

So... disagree entirely. Please provide concrete examples of how a native app is less capable of invading your privacy than a web app that has been added to your home screen.

(Please keep in mind that home screen PWAs don't even have the same level of access to your Safari sessions that random websites have, which is why you have to log into PWAs a second time, even if you are already logged in using Safari.)