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ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

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Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#111

Post by mudetroit »

macjohnmcc wrote: post #90
walterbell wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Apple subscriptions are a reliable way to signup for HBO or Showtime to binge-watch a specific show. Signup and immediately cancel the subscription, that gives you 30 days to watch. No further payment management actions needed.

It is funny that if you sign up for a 7 day free trial of Apple TV+ that if you cancel immediately before the end of the 7 days your trial is up immediately as well.

Free trial is a bit different then what the parent was describing though. Which is paying for a month and turning off auto-renew effectively.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#112

Post by gowld »

Spooky23 wrote: post #45
bsg75 wrote: post #43

I'm actually happier to pay a small premium for IAP based subscriptions because of the cancellation options. Having been subjected to asinine "retention" policies that make ending a subscription service an onerous and time consuming process (ex: NYT), and having seen first hand how a company purposefully makes subscription cancellations difficult, being able to open a single interface and click `Cancel` is a massive…

There’s a lot of drama associated with this stuff. 100% of nothing is less than 70% of something. When I was in college I interned at a company that negotiated retail placements for stuff like software. The 30% slice is a much better model than the terms our customers were stuck with. In some cases, software people lose more in the channel for commercial software as well — companies like SHI skim the cream for doing…

That's great. Apple's great app store should compete in a free market for all stores, and you can enjoy shopping there.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#113

Post by abawany »

wycy wrote: post #56
bsg75 wrote: post #43

I'm actually happier to pay a small premium for IAP based subscriptions because of the cancellation options. Having been subjected to asinine "retention" policies that make ending a subscription service an onerous and time consuming process (ex: NYT), and having seen first hand how a company purposefully makes subscription cancellations difficult, being able to open a single interface and click `Cancel` is a massive…

> ex: NYT NYT is a great example of this. It took me multiple attempts over a span of 2 days to cancel my NYT subscription. There have been a few times since then when I've been tempted to re-subscribe (their election results tools are great), but remembering how hard it was to unsubscribe, I don't think I'll go back.

You know, this hasn't been my experience. The ability to get CS via chat to work on subscriptions stops/cancels has worked for me, albeit with a non-blocking wait. Edit0: wanted to add that my subscriptions (personal, gift) were done via PayPal (pre-approved payments) so I could cancel via there as well but the NYT chat/cs worked fine for me.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#114

Post by FpUser »

dboreham wrote: post #107
hatchnyc wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same experience here. I've cancelled all subscriptions that use this tactic and made myself a promise to never participate in implementing such a system. Whenever I subscribe to any service on Apple I will immediately unsubscribe. If I find myself wanting to use the service again after it expires it's a simple tap to resubscribe. I think I actually end up with more subscriptions this way, but at least I know I'm gett…

Big companies tend to be run by psychopaths who think it is ok to make it impossible to cancel a subscription.

It took me ages (more than a year I think) to unsubscribe from AWS. Luckily since we've deleted all the contents the fees were pretty nominal but still ...

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#115

Post by buzzert »

wycy wrote: post #56
bsg75 wrote: post #43

I'm actually happier to pay a small premium for IAP based subscriptions because of the cancellation options. Having been subjected to asinine "retention" policies that make ending a subscription service an onerous and time consuming process (ex: NYT), and having seen first hand how a company purposefully makes subscription cancellations difficult, being able to open a single interface and click `Cancel` is a massive…

> ex: NYT NYT is a great example of this. It took me multiple attempts over a span of 2 days to cancel my NYT subscription. There have been a few times since then when I've been tempted to re-subscribe (their election results tools are great), but remembering how hard it was to unsubscribe, I don't think I'll go back.

I immediately tried to cancel my subscription after discovering that they will still show ads even if you paid for the content.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#116

Post by TheRealPomax »

bsg75 wrote: post #43

I'm actually happier to pay a small premium for IAP based subscriptions because of the cancellation options. Having been subjected to asinine "retention" policies that make ending a subscription service an onerous and time consuming process (ex: NYT), and having seen first hand how a company purposefully makes subscription cancellations difficult, being able to open a single interface and click `Cancel` is a massive…

This is the opposite argument to what the problem is right now. It's not that IAP is bad, or that it shouldn't be available. It's that there's no alternative permitted in addition to Apple's IAP model. You're not even allowed to HINT at the fact that you might have alternative ways to pay for the things you want to pay for. Even if your name is hugeservicethateveryoneknows, you can't tell people that you have a website where they can manage their account.

IAP is great, and setting rules such that if apps offer IAP, they have to at least offer the platform's own payment service as initial and preferred choice, is perfectly reasonable. But it's extortion if you own the entire ecosystem and promise to ban anyone who wants to offer additional, alternative means of account/service management for a product/service that you have no business ownership of.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#117

Post by fermigier »

This reminds me of a very different time...

In 1997, then CEO of Sybase Mitchell Kertzman said in an interview with the French trade magazine 01 Informatique:

"Q: When you launched Jaguar CTS, a middleware tool competing with a Microsoft product, you received a rather explicit phone call... A: It was the Mafia! When I hung up, I realized that I had just received a phone call from the godfather who forbade me to sell drugs on his territory. And you know, Microsoft people behave like the Mafia: they don't have to break your leg, they just have to threaten you."

Source (in French): http://bat8.inria.fr/~lang/hotlist/free/abuse/mafia/kertzman...

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#118

Post by gherkinnn »

fermigier wrote: post #117

This reminds me of a very different time... In 1997, then CEO of Sybase Mitchell Kertzman said in an interview with the French trade magazine 01 Informatique: "Q: When you launched Jaguar CTS, a middleware tool competing with a Microsoft product, you received a rather explicit phone call... A: It was the Mafia! When I hung up, I realized that I had just received a phone call from the godfather who forbade me to sell…

Oh. Never got it as a child, but the Simpsons hat a bit about just that: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H27rfr59RiE

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#119

Post by r00fus »

jungturk wrote: post #74
r00fus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blame the "no regulation" crowd for that. Well functioning regulation and consumer protection is what promotes good things by forcing bad actors to get in line.

In theory, a competitive market could achieve the same goals, but in practice, it seems like marketplaces often need some regulatory nudging to get over the humps.

Completely unregulated free markets lead to extremes like slavery and leaded toys.

Regulatory practices can be abused or coopted (leading to regulatory capture) but that shouldn't mean we shouldn't keep pushing.

Would you frequent a completely unmoderated online forum? We all know how chatroulette turned out...

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#120

Post by drummer »

ProAm wrote: post #39
traveler01 wrote: post #36

Well, true that's kinda how Mafia works.

It's protection money. Apple is 'protecting you' from bad actors.

Apple is 'protecting' you from what they are going to do to you if you don't do what they want and pay. Much like the government and IRS.
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