ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion' • Hacker News Board

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#61

Post by r00fus » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 4:04 PM UTC

glasss wrote: post #54

bsg75 wrote: post #43

I'm actually happier to pay a small premium for IAP based subscriptions because of the cancellation options. Having been subjected to asinine "retention" policies that make ending a subscription service an onerous and time consuming process (ex: NYT), and having seen first hand how a company purposefully makes subscription cancellations difficult, being able to open a single interface and click `Cancel` is a massive…

It's awful that in today's world, a feature of a platform is that they don't partake in a particular scummy business practice. It's a shame that we even have this issue.

Blame the "no regulation" crowd for that. Well functioning regulation and consumer protection is what promotes good things by forcing bad actors to get in line.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#62

Post by rickyc091 » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 4:05 PM UTC

A Plus plan is currently $5/mo through their web. If you purchase an annual plan it's $4/mo ($48).

From what I can see, you can only purchase an annual plan on iOS for $60/mo. They also have fine print that states that Apple takes a 30% fee.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#63

Post by monadic2 » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 4:05 PM UTC

croh wrote: post #33

Google/Apple should drop the percentage. 30% is too high. Store is a kind of ecosystem which based on the mutual benefits of both Apple and Devs. Devs helped to accelerate their products. Having billions in reserve, they should not hurt this relationship.

I'm willing to negotiate. Starting offer: fuck your payment processor entirely.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#64

Post by pier25 » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 4:06 PM UTC

The walled garden could have worked if Apple had acted as a benevolent dictator. Instead, it degraded into a despot and it will face the consequences of this.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#65

Post by ramenandtrance » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 4:06 PM UTC

I think this is what happens when we have a "feudal system". People have given over control to a few feudal lords. We increasingly don't control our infrastructure or data. We are seeing the consolidation of power into the hands of a few powerful organizations. Once you get locked into your walled in garden, it's difficult to leave, be this for developers or end users, and these organizations know it.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#66

Post by rgbrenner » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 4:08 PM UTC

In August Wordpress complained about the same thing... and Apple apologized and changed the policy: https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/22/21397424/apple-wordpress-...

Protonmail brings up a 2018 incident that has already been addressed by the new policy. What point does this article serve? I think it's just free and easy publicity for ProtonMail.

If they had spoken up earlier, maybe they could have been the reason for change instead of WordPress.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#67

Post by heimatau » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 4:10 PM UTC

hollander wrote: post #12

I hope they will complain about this with the EU. Maybe the EU can stop this nonsense.

> Maybe the EU can stop this nonsense.

IMHO, they are the only entity that has the guts to do something substantial. I'm in the States. It's clear that DC doesn't care but some activists are trying to shift the public perception. It would be better served to focus on the EU's public perception as well (primarily).

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#68

Post by everybodyknows » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 4:11 PM UTC

secretsatan wrote: post #20

From the article : Apple responded, saying that free companion apps to paid online services are no longer required to have in-app purchases as of September 11, 2020. As long as paid upgrades are not offered through the app and it has no notifications to customers about an external subscription service, everything is fine. So....

Right, but notice the poison pill: "... no notifications to customers about an external subscription service".

Protonmail has a free tier, subject to resource limits:

https://protonmail.com/pricing

What should the app do when those limits are hit that Apple could not choose to call a "notification"?

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#69

Post by hatchnyc » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

wycy wrote: post #56

bsg75 wrote: post #43

I'm actually happier to pay a small premium for IAP based subscriptions because of the cancellation options. Having been subjected to asinine "retention" policies that make ending a subscription service an onerous and time consuming process (ex: NYT), and having seen first hand how a company purposefully makes subscription cancellations difficult, being able to open a single interface and click `Cancel` is a massive…

> ex: NYT NYT is a great example of this. It took me multiple attempts over a span of 2 days to cancel my NYT subscription. There have been a few times since then when I've been tempted to re-subscribe (their election results tools are great), but remembering how hard it was to unsubscribe, I don't think I'll go back.

Same experience here. I've cancelled all subscriptions that use this tactic and made myself a promise to never participate in implementing such a system.

Whenever I subscribe to any service on Apple I will immediately unsubscribe. If I find myself wanting to use the service again after it expires it's a simple tap to resubscribe. I think I actually end up with more subscriptions this way, but at least I know I'm getting use out of all of them. I wish I could a similar setup for all subscription services.

Re: ProtonMail CEO calls Apple's forced in-app purchases 'Mafia extortion'

#70

Post by consp » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

02020202 wrote: post #57

dtech wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the EU consumer protection law mandate this. You have to be able to cancel in all the same ways that you can sign up. The most common way to pay subscriptions is with SEPA direct debit, and banks have to let you revoke those authorizations even retro-actively for 90 days.

that is a lot of crap. sing up for internet/telephone/television/... over email or online form and then try to cancel it the same way. go ahead, try it. i'll wait here.

Signing up for shady services which clearly void the law is not the same as not having any rules.

The directives mostly concern draconian "send us a passport copy and cancellation letter" when you signed up online or via phone. Those are no longer allowed in most EU countries. If they do not comply you are free to cancel your subscription via the bank/creditcard by revoking their SEPA permission and reporting them to your local responsible authority.

edit: Both my mobile phone, internet and television service I can cancel directly online without problems starting next month. You cannot cancel yearly services unless specified in the first year but after that it is a monthly thing.