A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company • Hacker News Board

Re: A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company

#571

Post by nitrogen » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 7:23 AM UTC

randmeerkat wrote: post #555

notSupplied wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly agree that the mission of a company can (and preferably) be more than just for profit. However, "to be political" is still a pretty wide range of possible missions. Who calls the shots about what you're going to be political about, and which side you take? And when a group of employees disagree with the shots being called, what kinds of reactions are appropriate or not? I'll take a shot: - I think compell…

I’ll take a shot at responding: I would argue that the board wouldn’t exist without the people that make up the company. I would also argue that with monied interests and lobbyists in Washington, one of the last places that people can really effect societal change is at the work place. Companies have become the power center in American politics, so of course activism is going to rise up there. As far as compelled act…

It's the framing of everything in good vs evil, monochromatic terms that actually increases divisiveness and prevents deescalation of conflict. Forcing people to take one's side or else "be on the wrong side" in a multifaceted environment is not appropriate for a workplace, where people expect to be able to set aside differences to work together on work itself.

Re: A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company

#572

Post by sershe » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 7:31 AM UTC

lexs wrote: post #566

sershe wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a mis-characterization. My no-stance stance is not that I support that status quo, it's that I'll try to care about myself and my friends and family no matter what you political idiots do. Communism? Sure. Fascism? Whatever. I'd rather that you didn't, but it's more productive to mitigate it for myself than to get involved either way. Is it selfish? Probably, and I'm open and proud about that.

So Individualism? That's pretty clearly a political philosophy / ideology.

Yeah, the same way atheism is a religion and "off" is a TV channel.

Individualism as a political philosophy would be smth like advocating for libertarianism/adjacent stuff, etc. The apolitical stance is the apolitical stance. I do not engage in politics unless it's a minimum-effort activity like the default mail-in voting (WA). Sure, I may know approximately what the best way to organize society is, and if aliens landed and put me in charge I'd become political; but as it is, I do not care, mostly because it's not productive, but in no small part because actively caring about how to organize society is heavily correlated with being very wrong (IMHO).

Re: A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company

#573

Post by marcus_holmes » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 7:42 AM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #533

davorak wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a reasonable interpretation in my experience. I have definitely seen people told not to talk about what you might call controversial because it is political. Don't talk about your abortion and how it made your life better or worse. Don't talk about your birth control. Don't talk about how you were explicitly told by an authority figure you were not worthy of a job because of your sex/gender. Easy for me to…

I’ve never heard anyone told not to talk about those things because they’re political , but I could believe they were told not to talk about them because they’re controversial .

It is possible for a subject to be both political and controversial.

I think the fact that there are two sides to US politics, and those two sides split cleanly along almost every controversial topic, is causing the confusion. Because it's both.

Abortions are controversial because some people believe they should not be allowed to happen, while others belive women should be in control of their own bodies. Abortions are political because the Republican party has a publicly-stated policy of wanting to legislate against abortion. The Democratic party has a publicly-stated policy of wanting to maintain women's ability to get an abortion if they need one.

Thus a controversial topic is also political. Any discussion of the topic will inevitably reduce to a political discussion because the two political parties are so closely aligned with the two sides of the conversation.

Because of the way that US politics has been so data-driven, focus-group informed, every controversial topic is being used as a method of creating political traction. So everything controversial is becoming political. Even something as banal as wearing a mask during a pandemic is turned into a political statement.

Re: A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company

#574

Post by yokaze » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 7:42 AM UTC

titanomachy wrote: post #336

yokaze wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see it the other way around. (Almost) everything is political. The mission of the company is not disjoint from the society it is embedded in. Things have become divisive by being able to ignore and blend out the opposing views. By not talking and listening to one another. This is just one more step in that direction. Funnily enough, I think it has been extrapolated by Neal Stephenson in Diamond Age. We will end up…

I think the relevant distinction that Brian makes is not "political vs not-political" but "relevant or not relevant to the business". It seems they are comfortable engaging on political issues that are directly related to what they are doing. For example, affirmative action is arguably a political topic, but it would be on the table for discussion at Coinbase because it's relevant to how they hire.

With that, I can more easily agree. I am then not sure how it devolved (in my opinion) into being "apolitical".

I definitely see the point of keeping a company focused on its task, though probably we have then the same discussion with different terms.

Re: A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company

#575

Post by mola » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 7:43 AM UTC

notSupplied wrote: post #488

yokaze wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see it the other way around. (Almost) everything is political. The mission of the company is not disjoint from the society it is embedded in. Things have become divisive by being able to ignore and blend out the opposing views. By not talking and listening to one another. This is just one more step in that direction. Funnily enough, I think it has been extrapolated by Neal Stephenson in Diamond Age. We will end up…

I certainly agree that the mission of a company can (and preferably) be more than just for profit. However, "to be political" is still a pretty wide range of possible missions. Who calls the shots about what you're going to be political about, and which side you take? And when a group of employees disagree with the shots being called, what kinds of reactions are appropriate or not? I'll take a shot: - I think compell…

Companies that have a mission "to change the world" attract employees on the basis of activisism in the world. Heck this company is trying to overhaul the entire monetary system. If succeeded this will effect the lives of billions of people. Recruiting people with this premise, and then telling them actually, you don't have any say in what the company actually does, and the ways it changes the world, that actually it was all a joke, and so just shut up and do what the board says because they own all the power and rights is pretty disappointing.

I never believed the whole "change the world" SV nonsense, and always knew it was nothing more than cynical marketing. But at least in places like Google the employees who were brought on that premise, fight to achieve it, and make it real.

Coinbase is still hypocritical, and I wouldn't expect much more.

But this whole, "you are only a serf and the whole of power morally belongs to the board" reveals an unsettling feudal mentality.

Re: A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company

#576

Post by bubersson » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 7:46 AM UTC

pinewurst wrote: post #466

throwaway894345 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was recently laid off in tech and I flipped the "I'm looking for work" switch on linkedin and got literally dozens of messages from recruiters every day. I ultimately got a job that paid 10% better than my previous job, and I rushed the decision because I had only a small fraction of the severance that coinbase employees are receiving. Even with the "looking for work" switch toggled off, I get several messages from…

What buzzwords do you have in your profile that so attract recruiters? I’m not having anything like that happen to me.

"JavaScript", "Frontend", "Angular", "React" have the similar effect.

Re: A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company

#577

Post by mola » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 7:46 AM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #571

randmeerkat wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll take a shot at responding: I would argue that the board wouldn’t exist without the people that make up the company. I would also argue that with monied interests and lobbyists in Washington, one of the last places that people can really effect societal change is at the work place. Companies have become the power center in American politics, so of course activism is going to rise up there. As far as compelled act…

It's the framing of everything in good vs evil, monochromatic terms that actually increases divisiveness and prevents deescalation of conflict. Forcing people to take one's side or else "be on the wrong side" in a multifaceted environment is not appropriate for a workplace, where people expect to be able to set aside differences to work together on work itself.

I agree. But that's not a problem inherent in bringing political issues to the work place. This is a whole different problem which exists regardless of the work place. It's the zeitgeist, it's the result of attention economy, and massive social media.

Re: A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company

#578

Post by chao- » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 7:49 AM UTC

ISL wrote: post #457

thedevil wrote: post #11

One thought: If you see a resume with Coinbase until October 2020, that's probably someone who prefers political activism in the workplace. That might be seen in a positive or negative light, depending on your stance. I personally am afraid to associate myself too publicly with a political stance, lest I be wrong and/or the environment changes.

As a way of reply to, " I personally am afraid to associate myself too publicly with a political stance, lest I be wrong and/or the environment changes. " "Well, whatever life is, you’re going to die. So if you’re going to make things better for yourself or for those you care about, you had better become an activist while you’re still alive." -- Will Provine https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?cc=ptb;c=ptb…

Viewing activism as a binary—the only choices being "I am an activist" and "I am not an activist"—glosses over a wide spectrum of dispositional diversity that people inhabit.

Put differently: There is a difference between advocacy and activism, between holding political opinions and being comfortable with them as a central focus of your life, or as a central characteristic that you wish people to see in you.

Re: A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company

#579

Post by jes5199 » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 7:54 AM UTC

asdff wrote: post #396

eli wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been discussed extensively in the previous threads on Coinbase, but banning the discussion of certain topics in the workplace is itself a political stance. Very much so.

It's as political as banning goofing off at work. You aren't hired to spend the working day debating politics with your co workers, just like you aren't hired to blow off the day playing Halo in the back room with your coworkers. You are hired to do the tasks described in your job and that alone.

this “just do your job” talk only comes out when we’re talking about activism. the rest of the time y’all are saying “we’re a family of co-owners trying to change the world”

Re: A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company

#580

Post by knorker » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 7:57 AM UTC

tshaddox wrote: post #384

knorker wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (Almost) everything is political. Only in a world where words have no meaning.

What meaning are you using then? Even the most basic dictionary definition of "politics" is something like "all the activities involved in determining the policies and actions of an organization or government."

And everything determines the policies and actions of an organization or government?

That's like saying every conversation is about syntax and semantics.