Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google

Post by galaxyLogic » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 12:21 AM UTC

andrewjl wrote: post #455

galaxyLogic wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> accounting methods are not of themselves copyrightable creative works. True. Neither are 'ways of calling library functions" copyrightable. But in the case of Java API what was copied was the actual Java-code in which the APIs are expressed. Because the APIs are "fed" to the compiler as Java source-code, it is clear what was copied was not just the "way library-functions are called". What was copied was Java SOURCE…

From the Baker opinion: "The conclusion to which we have come is, that blank account-books are not the subject of copyright; and that the mere copyright of Selden's book did not confer upon him the exclusive right to make and use account-books, ruled and arranged as designated by him and described and illustrated in said book." [1] I believe based on this reasoning, copying APIs or copying code is a distinction witho…

Post by tjchear » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 12:28 AM UTC

TheDong wrote: post #391

tjchear wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that the IRL analogy of API is architectural diagrams. A better analogy for API would be an agreement on how to communicate what needs to be done (and what has been done) between two persons. The aggregate effect of that over thousands of people is a working system, coordinated by the mastermind (programmer) who dictates the actual orchestration of the entire system. If API is copyrightable, I'd love to be…

Copyright violation requires copying, and independent derivation is a valid defense. Patents don't require proof of copying and are always infringed, even with no knowledge. If you wrote that API, and I wrote that exact same API without having seen yours, you wouldn't be able to sue me for copyright violation. All I'd have to show in court is that there's a decent probability that I independently created the same API…

Post by nodamage » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 12:28 AM UTC

andrewjl wrote: post #440

nodamage wrote: post #240

I'm not sure why so many people here seem to be surprised by this, I got the exact same impression from the hearing. The problem for Google on the copyrightability front is that "compilations" of non-copyrightable items can be copyrightable even if the underlying items themselves are not, if the "selection, coordination, or arrangement" of those items involves sufficient creativity to be considered an "original work…

Having read multiple perspectives, some pro-Google and some pro-Oracle, I cannot reconcile this sort of argument with the Baker v. Selden precedent. [1] Perhaps my understanding of APIs is different because I'm an engineer and not a lawyer, but how is this not an open and shut case? The cookbook analogy is not applicable for the same reason one could not apply it in Baker , accounting methods are not of themselves co…

Post by mrh0057 » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 12:31 AM UTC

andrewjl wrote: post #440

nodamage wrote: post #240

I'm not sure why so many people here seem to be surprised by this, I got the exact same impression from the hearing. The problem for Google on the copyrightability front is that "compilations" of non-copyrightable items can be copyrightable even if the underlying items themselves are not, if the "selection, coordination, or arrangement" of those items involves sufficient creativity to be considered an "original work…

Having read multiple perspectives, some pro-Google and some pro-Oracle, I cannot reconcile this sort of argument with the Baker v. Selden precedent. [1] Perhaps my understanding of APIs is different because I'm an engineer and not a lawyer, but how is this not an open and shut case? The cookbook analogy is not applicable for the same reason one could not apply it in Baker , accounting methods are not of themselves co…

Post by enraged_camel » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 12:32 AM UTC

andrewjl wrote: post #458

interpol_p wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to argue whether I think APIs should be copyrightable, but I believe creating a good API is a work of creative design, and is artistic I design an API for graphical coding and spend significant creative energy choosing the right words, calling conventions, result types to not only make something intuitive, but emotionally pleasurable to code with Sometimes I'll spend days writing out possible forms of t…

> I'm not going to argue whether I think APIs should be copyrightable, but I believe creating a good API is a work of creative design, and is artistic I disagree. I think the specification can be, but the API code itself is a mechanical translation of the specification into computer code. Note that abstractions, names, etc are conceived in the specification and are then translated into computer code. Even if you skip…