Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another interesting take: Machine architectures expose an API, and it may become impossible for anyone but a chip manufacturer to distribute a compiler.
Machine architectures are very much copyrightable right? That's why Intel license x86 to AMD. Thing is, for chip manufactures it makes no sense not to allow others to call this x86 API. Things could get dicier for other who try and virtualize a machine instruction set.
Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
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Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#412I'm not sure why so many people here seem to be surprised by this, I got the exact same impression from the hearing. The problem for Google on the copyrightability front is that "compilations" of non-copyrightable items can be copyrightable even if the underlying items themselves are not, if the "selection, coordination, or arrangement" of those items involves sufficient creativity to be considered an "original work…
If I'd publish a cookbook with the same chapters and recipe names as a different cookbook, but every recipe my own creation from scratch; I wouldn't consider that copyright infringement.
Roberts: Let's say someone copies the headings in your brief and they copy the organization in your brief, which sections you put first and how you organize them. Would your argument say that's perfectly fine so long as they write their own text?
Google's lawyer didn't really have a great response to that. He said "no but computer programs are different" but really didn't provide a compelling argument for why.
Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#413Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm no expert on RBG, but I always pegged her as a Neo-Lib, rather than a Leftist.
Sure- but then you have to be careful defining labels. Trying to peg a generic one dimensional (left-right) or even two dimensional (social/fiscal) political position on justices is difficult, even with loosely defined labels/ categories. It's much easier to look at justices relative position/ rank on a per-topic basis. Alternatively, and less useful to the general public, but very useful to SCOTUS junkies, is lookin…
Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#414This isn't just a disaster for Google. This is a disaster for competition in the tech industry and a disaster for consumers. If APIs can be copyrighted, what's next? File formats? On-the-wire protocols?
The world is going to be fine.
Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#415This might not just be a disaster for Google - it could be a disaster for software everywhere. If APIs become copyrightable, what happens to any open source software the implements a proprietary API? Supreme court judges just do not have the conceptual framework to properly adjudicate this. I don't think it's going to be possible to teach them the difference between interface and implementation within the parameters…
If APIs become copyrightable, we just have to change our strategy a little bit. Instead of making a compatible API, you write a program to modify other programs, which detects calls to the target API and transforms them to a shim that is not copyrighted, which can call either the copyrighted API or your new API.
First, as colejohnson66 pointed out, that may be a derivative work. This will depend on how your transformer actually works.
I can't think of any way to do it that does not involve having access at run time to a copy of the copyrighted API. If that copy is part of the transformer, there is a good chance the transform is a derivative work.
If the transformer does not include the copyrighted API, instead getting information about it from some external source that the user must supply at run time such as via an input file describing the API using some sort of API description language then it is much less likely to be a derivative work. Well, at least if it somewhat general, working with several APIs described in that language rather than just working with the one particular copyrighted API.
Second, even if it is not a derivative work, the people who use it to make the shim might be infringing. Usually that would not be your problem (unless you do something like indemnify your users, which I'll assume you would not be insane enough to do).
However, you have to at least consider contributory infringement. If I infringe someone's copyright using tools I got from you, and those tools have no substantial use other than infringing copyright, you can be held liable along with me for the infringement.
As with the derivative work case, if you can make the transformer general purpose so that it can be used for transforming APIs that are not copyrighted too, you should be able to avoid contributory infringement.
Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#416Should Oracle win this case, I predict that Free Software licenses will emerge as the clear market choice. Licenses that enshrine interoperability along with the freedom to modify or reimplement in part or wholesale will suddenly provide significantly more value over non-Free software which will be a proprietary minefield and the value will not be for technical but purely from legal liability. Anyone setting out to d…
The Google lawyer should be fired. I can’t believe you’d put the best of the best in front of the SC and the guy didn’t even sound like he could describe what an API actually is in non-technical terms. I don’t see how he represented the best legal representation Google could buy.
Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#417Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As applied to Java, individual method signatures like min and max might not be copyrightable, but someone had to go in and organize those individual methods into classes, and organize those classes into packages. That act of organization likely implies that the Java API (taken as a whole) constitutes a copyrightable work, even if the individual method signatures are not. The problem with this theory is that class a…
You seem to have misread what was being said, because you seem to be arguing against something that was explicitly stated to not be the case: > individual recipes are generally not copyrightable , but if you compile a set of recipes and publish them in a cookbook, the cookbook itself becomes copyrightable. (emphasis mine) The law understands that the whole is more than the sum of its parts. And Java adds up a lot of…
That's true, and while I have a very clear way I would like the Court to handle that personally, it's probably a good reason for the Court to look for an excuse to punt hard on copyrightability if it is open to them (and the procedural issue on fair use seems to offer that opportunity) and let the Circuit Courts (and I don't mean the Federal Circuit dubiously interpreting some regional circuit’s law) develop this issue more before resolving it at the Supreme Court level.
Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#418I'm not sure why so many people here seem to be surprised by this, I got the exact same impression from the hearing. The problem for Google on the copyrightability front is that "compilations" of non-copyrightable items can be copyrightable even if the underlying items themselves are not, if the "selection, coordination, or arrangement" of those items involves sufficient creativity to be considered an "original work…
Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#419Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#420I'm not sure why so many people here seem to be surprised by this, I got the exact same impression from the hearing. The problem for Google on the copyrightability front is that "compilations" of non-copyrightable items can be copyrightable even if the underlying items themselves are not, if the "selection, coordination, or arrangement" of those items involves sufficient creativity to be considered an "original work…
I am surprised that Google's legal team would forward such lame arguments. There are much better lawyers out there with a much stronger ability to convey complex topics to non-technical people in a way that illustrates the point under consideration.