Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system • Hacker News Board

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#61

Post by Aerroon » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

dangus wrote: post #28

soyiuz wrote: post #2

Hyperloop sounds like a bunch of hype. High speed trains are a thing already, as are MagLev trains, as are trains that go through tunnels, called the subway. The lack of their success in the US market has little to do with the technology itself and more to do with politics. The addition of vacuum tunnels does little to alleviate the administrative / financial challenges of our struggling train systems. Vacuum has few…

While I agree with your overall point, and I also think that hyperloop deployment is unrealistic, I think part of the idea of the concept of hyperloop is to make high speed rail fast enough for the expansive sizes of America. If you took a 300km/hr train from Orlando to New York City, you’d still be competing poorly with a $100 Spirit Airlines flight. That’s almost 6 hours on the train compared to a 2 hour flight. Ev…

The train could offer a better service though. More leg room, proper internet connections, better food (the altitude won't make it bland) being able to move around etc. You could even make the train overnight and people could sleep in them.

The other thing is that the airport process isn't very friendly.

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#62

Post by intotheabyss » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #45

nickik wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original Hyperloop concept avoids the things you mentioned. It does not use vacuum: > The problem with this approach is that it is incredibly hard to maintain a near vacuum in a room, let alone 700 miles (round trip) of large tube with dozens of station gateways and thousands of pods entering and exiting every day. All it takes is one leaky seal or a small crack somewhere in the hundreds of miles of tube and the…

> It does not use vacuum: IIRC, the proposed pressure was less than 1 kPa. That would be less than the pressure at the Karman Line, the boundary of space.

The proposed pressure was equivalent to 70k feet altitude, IIRC. So a pressure of about 3.5 kPa.

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#63

Post by rini17 » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #22

soyiuz wrote: post #2

Hyperloop sounds like a bunch of hype. High speed trains are a thing already, as are MagLev trains, as are trains that go through tunnels, called the subway. The lack of their success in the US market has little to do with the technology itself and more to do with politics. The addition of vacuum tunnels does little to alleviate the administrative / financial challenges of our struggling train systems. Vacuum has few…

You're focused too much on the vacuum aspect of the tube, and not nearly enough on the fact that it's a tube, with enough self-support to be elevated on pylons and is an order of magnitude easier to build than pouring a foundation for maglev tracks. High speed rail track is dramatically more difficult and expensive to build than a hyperloop tube system. This was, from the beginning, the huge differentiator between th…

Roads and rails can have small gaps to allow for stretching from temperature changes. Pipelines solve this with U-shaped segments. Hyperloop can't do either, requires something with airtight-enough seals or some expensive materials.

At such high speeds as proposed, any sagging is impermissible (again, unlike pipelines). Of course it's solved engineering problem but it markedly increases the construction price and complexity.

So, no, hyperloop is not really comparable to pipelines.

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#64

Post by redisman » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

humanistbot wrote: post #27

Note that the article states this will just be a 6 mile test track inside of a former coal mine, not an real-world system for transporting passengers from one part of WV to another.

I can't imagine WV will ever get much investment in public transport with their population density.

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#65

Post by hammock » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 5:05 PM UTC

briefcomment wrote: post #7

soyiuz wrote: post #2

Hyperloop sounds like a bunch of hype. High speed trains are a thing already, as are MagLev trains, as are trains that go through tunnels, called the subway. The lack of their success in the US market has little to do with the technology itself and more to do with politics. The addition of vacuum tunnels does little to alleviate the administrative / financial challenges of our struggling train systems. Vacuum has few…

One way to overcome politics is to make something sound so cool that the public is generally on board with it.

Like.. war?

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#66

Post by rockostrich » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 5:13 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #25

timerol wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Northeast Corridor is wildly profitable for Amtrak (based on operating costs), despite being significantly worse than flying, and often slower than driving. (It's faster than rush-hour driving, but that's about it.) Making fast-enough rail that connects useful places, and upgrading the speed of existing rail that meets the same criteria, is a much better strategy IMO than trying to do "better than flying" rail ba…

> The Northeast Corridor is wildly profitable for Amtrak (based on operating costs), despite being significantly worse than flying, and often slower than driving. (It's faster than rush-hour driving, but that's about it.) Worse than flying? I can take the train from Wash. DC to New York City Penn Station, visit my friends who live in the city by walking alone, and then come back home in time for dinner. (Broadway, Ti…

> Broadway, Times Square, and Wall Street are all walking-distance from Penn Station

Wall Street is a 3+ mile walk from Penn Station. Sure, it's walkable just like everything in NYC is walkable, but I don't know why you wouldn't just pick another landmark in NYC like Central Park or Grand Central Terminal. Or just say that all are less than a 20 minutes subway ride away.

Also, saying there's a direct subway line to Brooklyn from Manhattan isn't saying much. Brooklyn is huge and to go anywhere besides downtown likely requires a transfer. I'm not arguing that flying is better between DC and NYC, but your arguments are making it seem like it's trivial to get anywhere from Penn Station and impossible to get anywhere from Laguardia.

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#67

Post by Communitivity » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #14

mac01021 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a flattering impression of the state you have. Anyway, WV is between NYC and DC, and there was a good site available for them to build their prototype.

Uh... West Virginia is nowhere near the NYC-DC axis. It is potentially on the route between DC and Chicago, but most crayon maps would rather hook the Midwest into the Northeast Corridor by going via Pittsburgh, the Juniata water gaps, Harrisburg, and Philadelphia instead of picking a more southerly route that hits Baltimore or DC.

There's another corridor that might make sense as their first one DCWVNC Research Triangle. At 4h by car, with a marketed Hyperloop speed (emphasis on marketed) of 670mph, you could theoretically cut the time to 30m. Meaning you could live in WV and commit to Durham,NC. WV is also somewhat equidistant to Pittsburgh,PA and Philadelphia,PA as well.

If you managed to create a commuting hub that allowed 30 minute (plus time to hub, etc.) commutes to Pittsburgh, Durham, DC, and Philadelphia you would have a major hub with a great deal of value, akin to Chicago in the height of the railway days. That's a pretty big if though, and would take a lot of work, money, and politics.

If they did it though they could expand the hub:

* Add a station in Richmond, and a line to VA Beach * Expand north with a line from Philadelphia to NYC * Once you are in NYC, expand north line a line to boston * Finally, expand sound to Atlanta and then to Orlando.

Lot of ifs in there, and not sure I would be on it happening, but if it did the benefits would likely be amazing in terms of less pollution from cars, less unemployment since your pool of workplaces is much higher, potentially less shipping costs,etc. It's something I'd love to see.

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#68

Post by InvisibleCities » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

soyiuz wrote: post #2

Hyperloop sounds like a bunch of hype. High speed trains are a thing already, as are MagLev trains, as are trains that go through tunnels, called the subway. The lack of their success in the US market has little to do with the technology itself and more to do with politics. The addition of vacuum tunnels does little to alleviate the administrative / financial challenges of our struggling train systems. Vacuum has few…

The point of Hyperloop is to provide a shiny new technology that municipalities can use as an excuse for not investing in public transportation, ensuring that America switches to electric cars instead trains/buses/trams/bikes/etc as ICE automobiles are phased out over the next 20 years.

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#69

Post by bigbubba » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #32

bigbubba wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trains are also more comfortable than [coach] plane seats by a long mile, and you don't have to deal with TSA either. Showing up at the station the minute the train rolls out is/was very feasible, unlike with flying. When I lived in Philly I used Amtrak every chance I got, whether I was going north to NY, south to DC, or west to Harrisburg. It was great. Very comfortable and low stress. And I could generally get…

When I was a student, all I could afford was the $10 or $20 bus, which was uncomfortable as all heck. Now that I'm an adult with some money, I'm willing to pay $80 on the train ticket. I agree with you, way more leg room, much less stress. There's a train that departs every hour in the day (and every 2-hours during midnight hours). I don't even need to plan anything. Just walk up to the train station and go. If you d…

Another factor to consider is that when trading an hour in line for TSA for an hour on the train, you can relax, take a nap or read a book, while in line for the TSA you have to stay awake and alert. The same applies for time spent in the airport terminal, I'm always afraid to doze off there, lest I miss my flight. And as you mention, missing a train is generally not a huge deal; I missed a few over the years and was always able to get onto the next train an hour of so later. This flexibility alone gives huge peace of mind.

At the time I think I was paying about $40 or so between Philly and Harrisburg, one or two times a month. Not as cheap as a bus, but well worth it I think.

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#70

Post by dragontamer » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

bigbubba wrote: post #69

dragontamer wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a student, all I could afford was the $10 or $20 bus, which was uncomfortable as all heck. Now that I'm an adult with some money, I'm willing to pay $80 on the train ticket. I agree with you, way more leg room, much less stress. There's a train that departs every hour in the day (and every 2-hours during midnight hours). I don't even need to plan anything. Just walk up to the train station and go. If you d…

Another factor to consider is that when trading an hour in line for TSA for an hour on the train, you can relax, take a nap or read a book, while in line for the TSA you have to stay awake and alert. The same applies for time spent in the airport terminal, I'm always afraid to doze off there, lest I miss my flight. And as you mention, missing a train is generally not a huge deal; I missed a few over the years and was…

Cell phones also work for most of the ride.

If you enter a tunnel or something, your cell phone shuts off (but there are rumors of cell phone companies beginning to deploy towers inside of tunnels!! So maybe even the "tunnel problem" will be fixed soon). But in today's age where the cell phone is your connection to the world in general, its a pretty nifty advantage.