Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system • Hacker News Board

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#51

Post by nickik » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 4:25 PM UTC

bigbubba wrote: post #38

nickik wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Virgin system but Elon Musk original Hyperloop paper clearly stated: > The problem with this approach is that it is incredibly hard to maintain a near vacuum in a room, let alone 700 miles (round trip) of large tube with dozens of station gateways and thousands of pods entering and exiting every day. All it takes is one leaky seal or a small crack somewhere in the hundreds of miles of tube and the…

A modest low pressure in the tube would become high pressure in the tube when you start pushing a piston (Hyperloop car/capsule) down the tube. Where would all the air piling up in front go? This is why the original concept drawings had large fans on the front of the cars, however this concept seems to have been abandoned, leaving this problem unsolved.

The capsule pumps the air behind itself. That is correct.

However this is is Virgin Hyperloop. Its very different from Elon Musk Hyperloop design.

No evidence that Elon Musk changed his design. We know he is still on his back burner. His change seems to be more about moving to tunnels rather then tubes.

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#52

Post by carabiner » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 4:29 PM UTC

soyiuz wrote: post #2

Hyperloop sounds like a bunch of hype. High speed trains are a thing already, as are MagLev trains, as are trains that go through tunnels, called the subway. The lack of their success in the US market has little to do with the technology itself and more to do with politics. The addition of vacuum tunnels does little to alleviate the administrative / financial challenges of our struggling train systems. Vacuum has few…

The mandatory "less space than a Nomad" comment. I suspect this will not age well.

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#53

Post by jcranmer » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 4:30 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #22

soyiuz wrote: post #2

Hyperloop sounds like a bunch of hype. High speed trains are a thing already, as are MagLev trains, as are trains that go through tunnels, called the subway. The lack of their success in the US market has little to do with the technology itself and more to do with politics. The addition of vacuum tunnels does little to alleviate the administrative / financial challenges of our struggling train systems. Vacuum has few…

You're focused too much on the vacuum aspect of the tube, and not nearly enough on the fact that it's a tube, with enough self-support to be elevated on pylons and is an order of magnitude easier to build than pouring a foundation for maglev tracks. High speed rail track is dramatically more difficult and expensive to build than a hyperloop tube system. This was, from the beginning, the huge differentiator between th…

> Hyperloop tubes aren't comparable to road or rail bridges/tracks, but instead are comparable to constructing oil/gas/water pipelines.

How many pipelines are wide enough diameter to move an entire vehicle and designed to handle the stress of multi-ton vehicles as their dynamic loads? And how many of those are supported on pylons rather than being fully buried?

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#54

Post by BurningFrog » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 4:39 PM UTC

Meandering wrote: post #41

soyiuz wrote: post #2

Hyperloop sounds like a bunch of hype. High speed trains are a thing already, as are MagLev trains, as are trains that go through tunnels, called the subway. The lack of their success in the US market has little to do with the technology itself and more to do with politics. The addition of vacuum tunnels does little to alleviate the administrative / financial challenges of our struggling train systems. Vacuum has few…

I tend to agree. There are a lot of different aspects of market economics and environmental issues at play. The hyperloop, as a concept alone, has value if the marginal cost over conventional methods is supplemented by the increased efficiency in transportation. It will only make sense where predictable constant travel occurs (i.e. NY to DC). The is the same for trains or any other communal means of transport. I prim…

Replacing truck or rail transport with a vacuum tube cargo network does sound like it could be reaL useful!

Building the tubes is a big cost, but they should be much less intrusive and politically problematic than roads or rail.

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#55

Post by sakopov » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

nickik wrote: post #18

I have to be honest, whenever I read a tech company with the name 'Virgin' in front, I believe that will spend huge amounts of money and not achieve much. Virgin Galactic and Vrigin Orbit are both burning huge amount of money and have really not achieved much in relation to the amount spend. However they are always big in the media and Branson is always mentioned along side of Elon Musk. As if Virgin Orbit and SpaceX…

I don't know about Virgin Orbit, but isn't Virgin Galactic actively testing their aircraft for space flights? [1] I think it's a bit of a stretch to either call them a scam or argue that they didn't achieve much. This area has so many regulations it takes decades to innovate and go from idea to market.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceShipTwo

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#56

Post by sandworm101 » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

briefcomment wrote: post #7

soyiuz wrote: post #2

Hyperloop sounds like a bunch of hype. High speed trains are a thing already, as are MagLev trains, as are trains that go through tunnels, called the subway. The lack of their success in the US market has little to do with the technology itself and more to do with politics. The addition of vacuum tunnels does little to alleviate the administrative / financial challenges of our struggling train systems. Vacuum has few…

One way to overcome politics is to make something sound so cool that the public is generally on board with it.

>>> ...sound so cool that the public is generally on board with it.

Simpsons. Monorail. The song is what sold me on the idea.

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#57

Post by creaghpatr » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 4:50 PM UTC

dangus wrote: post #28

soyiuz wrote: post #2

Hyperloop sounds like a bunch of hype. High speed trains are a thing already, as are MagLev trains, as are trains that go through tunnels, called the subway. The lack of their success in the US market has little to do with the technology itself and more to do with politics. The addition of vacuum tunnels does little to alleviate the administrative / financial challenges of our struggling train systems. Vacuum has few…

While I agree with your overall point, and I also think that hyperloop deployment is unrealistic, I think part of the idea of the concept of hyperloop is to make high speed rail fast enough for the expansive sizes of America. If you took a 300km/hr train from Orlando to New York City, you’d still be competing poorly with a $100 Spirit Airlines flight. That’s almost 6 hours on the train compared to a 2 hour flight. Ev…

I've taken the Shanghai/Beijing route and I can tell you there is plenty of demand at that price point. Great value and not much longer than the overall airport process.

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#58

Post by handmodel » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 4:52 PM UTC

briefcomment wrote: post #7

soyiuz wrote: post #2

Hyperloop sounds like a bunch of hype. High speed trains are a thing already, as are MagLev trains, as are trains that go through tunnels, called the subway. The lack of their success in the US market has little to do with the technology itself and more to do with politics. The addition of vacuum tunnels does little to alleviate the administrative / financial challenges of our struggling train systems. Vacuum has few…

One way to overcome politics is to make something sound so cool that the public is generally on board with it.

I feel like this doesn't quite work. The vast majority of people may be for trains but there are so many points of local veto. If a train/hyperloop needs to cut through a neighborhood in order to avoid taking a 5 mile detour the 20 people effected are going to use everything in their power to stop it - who can blame them.

Even road expansion is slow and costly and hard to navigate.

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#59

Post by handmodel » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 4:52 PM UTC

dave5104 wrote: post #29

briefcomment wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way to overcome politics is to make something sound so cool that the public is generally on board with it.

I have little faith in something being cool preventing people from being up in arms about infrastructure builds in their backyard.

100% - thousands of points of local veto

Re: Virgin Hyperloop picks West Virginia to test high-speed transport system

#60

Post by jaclaz » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

dmos62 wrote: post #46

dangus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with your overall point, and I also think that hyperloop deployment is unrealistic, I think part of the idea of the concept of hyperloop is to make high speed rail fast enough for the expansive sizes of America. If you took a 300km/hr train from Orlando to New York City, you’d still be competing poorly with a $100 Spirit Airlines flight. That’s almost 6 hours on the train compared to a 2 hour flight. Ev…

I think you might be underestimating the comfort and convenience of train travel. > That’s almost 6 hours on the train compared to a 2 hour flight. A 2 hour flight also has you getting to the airport early-ish (~1h), going through check-in and/or security (0.75-2.0h, 1.5h average in my experience), waiting for luggage upon arrival and navigating the airport (~0.5h), getting to center city from the airport (~1h). So i…

Yes.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19560125