>Oracle, for example, re-implemented Amazon's S3 API so that customers who built software for Amazon's cloud platform could easily switch to Oracle's rival cloud platform. So if Oracle wins here, they will get fu xx ed by Amazon?
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Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
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Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#22The questioning seems to imply there's a split among party lines. Is that a coincidence or is there some political aspect to this?
Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#23>Oracle, for example, re-implemented Amazon's S3 API so that customers who built software for Amazon's cloud platform could easily switch to Oracle's rival cloud platform. So if Oracle wins here, they will get fu xx ed by Amazon?
Who knows. Does Amazon implement any of Oracle's APIs? This ruling is about to make the software patent mess look like a walk in the park.
I would wholly expect Amazon to sue over S3 implementations by Oracle, IBM for SQL, etc.
I would want the whole industry to target Oracle. Get their pound of flesh.
Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#24This isn't just a disaster for Google. This is a disaster for competition in the tech industry and a disaster for consumers. If APIs can be copyrighted, what's next? File formats? On-the-wire protocols?
The unimpeachable approach for the software industry is to setup consortiums to define open standards for APIs, file formats and wire protocols, instead of relying on replicating the most popular proprietary ones. In fact there already exist such consortiums, for example https://www.w3.org, tasked with standardizing WWW, or https://www.cncf.io for cloud computing standards.
Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#25This might not just be a disaster for Google - it could be a disaster for software everywhere. If APIs become copyrightable, what happens to any open source software the implements a proprietary API? Supreme court judges just do not have the conceptual framework to properly adjudicate this. I don't think it's going to be possible to teach them the difference between interface and implementation within the parameters…
>> If APIs become copyrightable, what happens to any open source software the implements a proprietary API? That has implications for language implementations too. Who would own the standard library for any given language? What about programs that call API functions? Are they derivative works too? An API is necessarily functional first and foremost. It would cause chaos and some weird dystopian future if Oracle wins.
It is usually in the interest of the designer of the API to have as many users as possible.
BUT in this case we are talking not of using part of an API (say the Math library to implement a physics engine is assembly and link it) but of reimplementing a whole language which has, as of today an when the events discussed took place (even if we agree to hate it) an owner.
Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#26,,Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google'' I don't see how losing even a few billion dollars could be a disaster for Google at this point. They control most of the smart phones in the world, and that's worth much more than that amount of money (regardless of whether using Java was the right choice or not).
Few billion dollars, sure. Except that little Supreme Court decision on API copyrightability thing.
Why would that be so bad for Google? Can you please explain?
Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#27Where are the expert witnesses in this case?? Do we really expect judges in their 60s and 70s to understand basics of coding in order to come to the right conclusion?? I put myself in their shoes, if I had never looked at a line of code I couldn't even start to imagine what an API vs real code is. I'd probably think it's some made up concept that Google is using to save money and circumvent the law.
To play devil's advocate: Architectural diagrams/design specifications for physical buildings are copyrightable. The implementation is obviously whatever the builder does. But in general, I think that is a pretty close analogy to APIs and implementation code. APIs also capture some sense of overall system design as well. So that may lend further credence to support copyrights.
Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#28This isn't just a disaster for Google. This is a disaster for competition in the tech industry and a disaster for consumers. If APIs can be copyrighted, what's next? File formats? On-the-wire protocols?
Why not screw heads and threads, too?
Apple wouldn't have to just use hard-to-find screwdrivers, they could just make a new screw shape, copyright the design, and then it'll be even harder to open their gadgets.
Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#29This might not just be a disaster for Google - it could be a disaster for software everywhere. If APIs become copyrightable, what happens to any open source software the implements a proprietary API? Supreme court judges just do not have the conceptual framework to properly adjudicate this. I don't think it's going to be possible to teach them the difference between interface and implementation within the parameters…
APIs being copyrightable doesn't actually harm implementations of APIs that fall under fair use. (Fair use exemptions specifically apply to copyrighted things.) Interoperability is fair use. And things like something being non-commercial, such as a lot of open source software, is a major factor in determining whether or not usage is fair. Things like WINE or NES emulators or the like would fall very comfortably into…
>And things like something being non-commercial, such as a lot of open source software, is a major factor in determining whether or not usage is fair.
Why it should? It would mean that implementing commercial Java runtime without Oracle license is not possible?
Re: Google’s Supreme Court faceoff with Oracle was a disaster for Google
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who knows. Does Amazon implement any of Oracle's APIs? This ruling is about to make the software patent mess look like a walk in the park.
I would wholly expect Amazon to sue over S3 implementations by Oracle, IBM for SQL, etc. I would want the whole industry to target Oracle. Get their pound of flesh.
And then Oracle sues Amazon and IBM back for implementing some API or other that they own through one of their billion acquisitions...